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Old 02-29-2012, 06:31 PM
 
26,836 posts, read 19,092,607 times
Reputation: 14335

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Just recently, an independent research project in the UK systematically reviewed the 162 articles on organic versus non-organic crops published in peer-reviewed journals between 1958 and 2008 11. These contained a total of 3558 comparisons of content of nutrients and other substances in organically and conventionally produced foods. They found absolutely no evidence for any differences in content of over 15 different nutrients including vitamin C, β-carotene, and calcium. There were some differences, though; conventional crops had higher nitrogen levels, while organic ones had higher phosphorus and acidity – none of which factor in much to nutritional quality. Further analysis of similar studies on livestock products like meat, dairy, and eggs also found few differences in nutritional content. Organic foods did, however, have higher levels of overall fats, particularly trans fats. So if anything, the organic livestock products were found to be worse for us (though, to be fair, barely).
but.. but.. pesticides!, you say?

rotenone is USDA-certified for use on organic crops. it's all-natural!
yet-

Quote:
However, research has shown that rotenone is highly dangerous because it kills by attacking mitochondria, the energy powerhouses of all living cells. Research found that exposure to rotenone caused Parkinson’s Disease-like symptoms in rats, and had the potential to kill many species, including humans.
Mythbusting 101: Organic Farming > Conventional Agriculture | Science Sushi, Scientific American Blog Network
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:23 PM
 
3,982 posts, read 5,769,052 times
Reputation: 4039
Ummmm... trans-fats are about 99.99% man-made. How, praytell, are organic foods/meats higher in a substance that is almost entirely non-existent in nature?
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Southern California
3,115 posts, read 7,252,913 times
Reputation: 3672
Organic fruits and vegetables, and milk and eggs and meat taste better. Once you try them, you'll never go back...
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:53 PM
 
26,836 posts, read 19,092,607 times
Reputation: 14335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
Ummmm... trans-fats are about 99.99% man-made. How, praytell, are organic foods/meats higher in a substance that is almost entirely non-existent in nature?
try again?

Quote:
By definition, ruminant trans fat is naturally-occurring and found in meat and dairy foods.
Rethinking Trans Fats; Natural Trans Fats From Dairy And Beef Are Good
Quote:
A type of trans fat occurs naturally in the milk and body fat of ruminants (such as cattle and sheep) at a level of 2–5% of total fat.[36] Natural trans fats, which include conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) and vaccenic acid, originate in the rumen of these animals. CLA has two double bonds, one in the cis configuration and one in trans, which makes it simultaneously a cis- and a trans-fatty acid.
Trans fat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
Originally Posted by bouncethelight View Post
Organic fruits and vegetables, and milk and eggs and meat taste better. Once you try them, you'll never go back...
eggs, probably, the rest i've tried and it's kinda hit or miss..
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:12 PM
 
11,256 posts, read 43,448,724 times
Reputation: 14942
We've been raising our own poultry ... free range ... which means a lot of native grasses and bugs and very little grains (OCIA certified organic) for two decades. We'd sold out our last batch at our Farmer's Market and run out of our own supply ....

So, in my desperation for a whole chicken to roast this last weekend, I purchased a national name brand whole bird at my local supermarket. I cooked it the same way I've roasted whole birds for years.

We were shocked at the huge amount of a deep yellow colored fat drippings in the roasting pan. The flavor of the chicken was way off from what we are accustomed to having.

Our birds have a minimal amount of fat, but what drippings do make it into the pan are almost colorless and but a tablespoon at the most from a typical 5-6 lb roaster.

It was a real eye-opener for us as to the difference in quality and taste of the product we've been raising for years. We sell them, whole frozen, processed in a USDA inspected plant, for $12/bird, although the price will most likely go up this year due to our costs of chicks and the grain/feed we use, and the increased cost we hear we'll have at our processor this year.

Similarly, we free-range grass feed our beef on our OCIA organic certified pastures. I've gotten to a point where our very lean beef which is still tender and flavorfull is a world apart from the feed-lot finished on grain beef in the grocer's case. I don't enjoy eating a steak in a restaurant anymore due to the typical marinades they use to keep the beef moist and tender. The difference is dramatic.

More importantly, I've visited with my dentist today and he commented on how many people he sees at my age who don't have all of their natural teeth anymore, or good gum health. It's an issue beyond simply observing good dental care on their part, there's a deterioration of the jaw in play for many of them. His comment is that so many people are eating processed/convenience foods with so much sugar & salt ... that they set themselves up for poor nutrional health.

I do know that I've been reading the obits of a sizable number of friends and acquaintances lately ... many of them a decade or more younger than I am. They succumbed to a number of the diseases which folk associate with much older ages ... heart attacks, cancers, tumors, diabetes, etc. They were all relatively young people who lead otherwise good lifestyles, didn't abuse substances, didn't smoke, were active/athletic ... but had typical US convenience food diets. That's the only factor that I can find that's commonly different in their lifestyles from mine. I think that there's a lot more to be learned about food additives, pesticides, HFCS, MSG, sugar substitutes, and so forth ....
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:22 PM
 
3,982 posts, read 5,769,052 times
Reputation: 4039
Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga View Post
try again?
You try again. Fact: Trans fat occurs very rarely in natural products. The vast majority of what exists is man-made. Ruminant trans fat makes up a tiny amount of the animals' overall fat and is, therefore, insignificant. It's also not the same as industrial trans fat.

Quote:
eggs, probably, the rest i've tried and it's kinda hit or miss..
^Obviously, this one has never planted a garden.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:41 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,429,916 times
Reputation: 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
You try again. Fact: Trans fat occurs very rarely in natural products. The vast majority of what exists is man-made. Ruminant trans fat makes up a tiny amount of the animals' overall fat and is, therefore, insignificant. It's also not the same as industrial trans fat.
^Obviously, this one has never planted a garden.
Naturally occurring trans fats

tfX: Natural trans fats.

Natural Trans Fats Have Health Benefits, New Study Shows

Natural Trans Fats Have Health Benefits, New Study Shows

Natural Trans Fatty Acids Not as Bad For Health as Processed Trans Fatty Acids

http://www.naturalnews.com/024700_na...ts_health.html
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:42 PM
 
4,985 posts, read 5,068,834 times
Reputation: 6324
I would strongly suggest to put studies aside, turn off talk radio and grow something I guarantee you will see the "light". Commercial organic or commercial conventional foods rely on more or less identical industrial growing & distribution methods a.k.a. monoculture, 1000 miles long commutes, "market driven" crop rotations (which frequently means no rotation), soil nutrient & mineral "mining" (conventional agro replenishes N, P, K and kills soil. Large scale organic operations don't replenish much, there is no affordable way). Large scale Agriculture (or organic farms) is extractive by definition i.e. soil nutrients & micro nutrients are removed year after year not to be returned. Only small scale "subsistence" farming/gardening of do-it-yourself kind can provide you with maximum of organic benefits. It's not so much about organic vs non-organic, it's more about small scale vs large scale, subsistence vs for profit, local vs distributed.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:05 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,429,916 times
Reputation: 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
I would strongly suggest to put studies aside, turn off talk radio and grow something I guarantee you will see the "light". Commercial organic or commercial conventional foods rely on more or less identical industrial growing & distribution methods a.k.a. monoculture, 1000 miles long commutes, "market driven" crop rotations (which frequently means no rotation), soil nutrient & mineral "mining" (conventional agro replenishes N, P, K and kills soil. Large scale organic operations don't replenish much, there is no affordable way). Large scale Agriculture (or organic farms) is extractive by definition i.e. soil nutrients & micro nutrients are removed year after year not to be returned. Only small scale "subsistence" farming/gardening of do-it-yourself kind can provide you with maximum of organic benefits. It's not so much about organic vs non-organic, it's more about small scale vs large scale, subsistence vs for profit, local vs distributed.
I have better things to do with my life than play farmer brown out in the country.

For some things I go down to the Farmers Market, for others the Supermarket. I don't get any healthier eating one than the other except my wallet is considerably lighter after purchasing "organic" stuff.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:12 PM
 
26,836 posts, read 19,092,607 times
Reputation: 14335
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
We've been raising our own poultry ... free range ... which means a lot of native grasses and bugs and very little grains (OCIA certified organic) for two decades. We'd sold out our last batch at our Farmer's Market and run out of our own supply ....

So, in my desperation for a whole chicken to roast this last weekend, I purchased a national name brand whole bird at my local supermarket. I cooked it the same way I've roasted whole birds for years.

We were shocked at the huge amount of a deep yellow colored fat drippings in the roasting pan. The flavor of the chicken was way off from what we are accustomed to having.

Our birds have a minimal amount of fat, but what drippings do make it into the pan are almost colorless and but a tablespoon at the most from a typical 5-6 lb roaster.

It was a real eye-opener for us as to the difference in quality and taste of the product we've been raising for years. We sell them, whole frozen, processed in a USDA inspected plant, for $12/bird, although the price will most likely go up this year due to our costs of chicks and the grain/feed we use, and the increased cost we hear we'll have at our processor this year.

Similarly, we free-range grass feed our beef on our OCIA organic certified pastures. I've gotten to a point where our very lean beef which is still tender and flavorfull is a world apart from the feed-lot finished on grain beef in the grocer's case. I don't enjoy eating a steak in a restaurant anymore due to the typical marinades they use to keep the beef moist and tender. The difference is dramatic.

More importantly, I've visited with my dentist today and he commented on how many people he sees at my age who don't have all of their natural teeth anymore, or good gum health. It's an issue beyond simply observing good dental care on their part, there's a deterioration of the jaw in play for many of them. His comment is that so many people are eating processed/convenience foods with so much sugar & salt ... that they set themselves up for poor nutrional health.

I do know that I've been reading the obits of a sizable number of friends and acquaintances lately ... many of them a decade or more younger than I am. They succumbed to a number of the diseases which folk associate with much older ages ... heart attacks, cancers, tumors, diabetes, etc. They were all relatively young people who lead otherwise good lifestyles, didn't abuse substances, didn't smoke, were active/athletic ... but had typical US convenience food diets. That's the only factor that I can find that's commonly different in their lifestyles from mine. I think that there's a lot more to be learned about food additives, pesticides, HFCS, MSG, sugar substitutes, and so forth ....
lots of good points. first of all, there is a large difference between junk food and non-organic food. for instance, non- organic chicken and non- organic vegetables/ grains, i think you would agree, would be vastly healthier than a diet of primarily cheeseburgers and macaroni.

i liked your point about fatty chickens. i have a friend from cameroon who, when he first came to the US, was ecstatic to see all the chicken he could buy on his measly graduate student salary. apparently, in cameroon, chicken is a rare treat. long story short, he loved US chicken but was appallled by how fatty it was. apparently free range chickens in cameroon don't accumulate too much fat.
in other words, i think you should differentiate free range chickens from organic, as they aren't necessarily one and the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
You try again. Fact: Trans fat occurs very rarely in natural products. The vast majority of what exists is man-made. Ruminant trans fat makes up a tiny amount of the animals' overall fat and is, therefore, insignificant. It's also not the same as industrial trans fat.
look at the study. organic ruminants are higher in trans fats than non-organic.
fact. 'organically' grown ruminants are higher in trans fats than their non organic brethren. of course they are not the same as industrial trans fats, that was never the issue.

Quote:
^Obviously, this one has never planted a garden.
my 3/4 acre plot of 16 different edible plant species doesn't qualify as a garden?
how so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Naturally occurring trans fats

tfX: Natural trans fats.

Natural Trans Fats Have Health Benefits, New Study Shows

Natural Trans Fats Have Health Benefits, New Study Shows

Natural Trans Fatty Acids Not as Bad For Health as Processed Trans Fatty Acids

Natural Trans Fatty Acids Not as Bad For Health as Processed Trans Fatty Acids

heretic!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
I would strongly suggest to put studies aside,
yeah. science is for idiots.

Quote:
turn off talk radio
what does talk radio have to do with anything?

Quote:
and grow something I guarantee you will see the "light".
i am an avid gardener. see my posts on that forum.
what kind of light am i failing to see?

Quote:
Commercial organic or commercial conventional foods rely on more or less identical industrial growing & distribution methods a.k.a. monoculture, 1000 miles long commutes, "market driven" crop rotations (which frequently means no rotation), soil nutrient & mineral "mining" (conventional agro replenishes N, P, K and kills soil. Large scale organic operations don't replenish much, there is no affordable way). Large scale Agriculture (or organic farms) is extractive by definition i.e. soil nutrients & micro nutrients are removed year after year not to be returned. Only small scale "subsistence" farming/gardening of do-it-yourself kind can provide you with maximum of organic benefits. It's not so much about organic vs non-organic, it's more about small scale vs large scale, subsistence vs for profit, local vs distributed.
okay, you make some good points here. however, to feed billions of people, your model fails to make the grade.
you can't feed the billions of people who live in an urban environment with small scale organic gardens.
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