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Old 06-05-2012, 01:25 PM
 
833 posts, read 1,472,987 times
Reputation: 764

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
Bt-Corn: What It Is and How It Works | University of Kentucky Entomology
The Science Creative Quarterly » BT CORN: IS IT WORTH THE RISK?

Bt crops work because the plants have been engineered to produce proteins fatal to certain insect orders when ingested. Which insect order gets affected is determined by which strain of Bt bacteria was used for the splicing and which protein the plants are engineered to produce.

In the case of Bt corn, the proteins (Bt Delta Endotoxin) are designed to target Lepidoptera (moths & butterflies) larvae and control corn borers. Unfortunately, the proteins aren't entirely selective to just corn borers, and do kill other non-target moths and butterflies (such as monarch butterflies); and have the potential to affect other non-target insect orders besides Lepidoptera.

Since these proteins are produced directly by the plant's cells (unlike Bt spray applications), it is entirely realistic to assume that they exist in any product made from those crops. Therefore, it not unreasonable to consider that a product containing those proteins (in this case corn syrup, but potentially even just the pollen) may have an adverse affect (not necessarily immediate death) when consumed by another insect, such as bees. Results of studies are incomplete, inconclusive and often conflicting.

key words in your post-----------"Therefore "................"not unreasonable to consider "................"may have ".........
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:25 PM
 
2,737 posts, read 4,349,744 times
Reputation: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf fan View Post
I doubt few ( if any ) of the Monsanto bashers ever grew corn or crop farmed for a living.

Reading the posts is quiote evident of that !
I've got some distant family members who are ALWAYS on some idiotic "anti-Monsanto" rant of some sort.

They are girls in their 20s, who grew up in wealthy families in the middle of a CITY. They literally do not know the difference between a boar and a bull, and honestly believe that cows in large dairies are literally different animals than cows that get milked by hand (yes, they actually think that the people who "do it right" milk cows by hand).

Their ignorance is matched only by their arrogance. It's pretty sad.
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 8,640,460 times
Reputation: 3359
You're talking about how much less fuel and tilling soil damage today's methods are than they were 75 years ago (which was the 1900's!)... and I agreed with you, and then you gripe at me for making false accusations???

All the modern improvements you mention can be obtained without GMO or an over-reliance on synthetics or technology. Methods and means are orthogonal.
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:40 PM
 
2,737 posts, read 4,349,744 times
Reputation: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
You're talking about how much less fuel and tilling soil damage today's methods are than they were 75 years ago (which was the 1900's!)... and I agreed with you, and then you gripe at me for making false accusations???

All the modern improvements you mention can be obtained without GMO or an over-reliance on synthetics or technology. Methods and means are orthogonal.
I edited my post. Sorry.

Also, I think you're wrongly viewing all GMO crops as some sort of Zombie Apocolypse type thing. They aren't! RoundUp Ready crops have part of a DNA Gene Sequence REMOVED from them - the part that makes them susceptible to glyphosate. There isn't some heinous 3rd-arm-growing hormone ADDED.

People need to get over this crazy, "OMG IT'S GMO!!!!!!!!" obsessive frenzy that ignorant city people have whipped them into. It's one thing to be intelligently cautious. It's another to be blindly crazy.
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Burlington, Colorado
347 posts, read 717,749 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George View Post
I'm also dumbfounded by the naiveté of people who are always longing for "the good old days of agriculture," as if they have any clue what was REALLY going on.

75 years ago, farmers were burning 8-10 times as many gallons of fuel per acre, in order to produce less than 1/4th the volume of crops modern farmers are producing. They were blowing millions of cubic feet of exhaust into the air, but nobody was paying attention. Today, they blow a mere FRACTION of the exhaust into the air!

Because there were no contact herbicides, farmers were plowing up, and cultivating, entire STATES, leaving them vulnerable to wind & other kinds of erosion. Does anybody remember hearing about The Dust Bowl?

Today's American farmers produce more with less than ever before, and they are leaving the soil in better condition than it EVER has been.


People's ignorance, and willingness to chase frenzied trends, just amazes me.
We also burned millions of acres of wheat stubble every year. Bet that was good for the environment
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:56 PM
 
2,737 posts, read 4,349,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohazco View Post
We also burned millions of acres of wheat stubble every year. Bet that was good for the environment
Well... That was one form of pesticide - burning weed seeds, insects, and insect eggs.

But hey, it was "natural" so maybe we ought to go back to it?
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:28 AM
 
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
2,117 posts, read 5,328,806 times
Reputation: 3517
Well here's why I'm against GMOs...

The same people advocating for GMOs and Monsatan are the same bunch also advocating for the rights of corporations, the corporate welfare for wall street, continued monopoly of the health cartels, endless drilling and exploitation of our natural resources instead of renewables, and the "do-nothing" approach to heavy polluters.

I trust used car salesman more than I trust Monsatan or the people that support letting corporations run amok.
Have a nice day.
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:48 AM
 
2,737 posts, read 4,349,744 times
Reputation: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by cittic10 View Post
Well here's why I'm against GMOs...

The same people advocating for GMOs and Monsatan are the same bunch also advocating for the rights of corporations,
This is not true.

the corporate welfare for wall street,
This is not true.

continued monopoly of the health cartels,
This is not true.

endless drilling and exploitation of our natural resources instead of renewables,
This is not true.

and the "do-nothing" approach to heavy polluters.
This is not true.

I trust used car salesman more than I trust Monsatan or the people that support letting corporations run amok.
I'm sure you DO trust used car salesmen - particularly if they're trying to sell you a car that has a "Hope and Change" sticker on it.

Have a nice day.
No amount of copy & paste political rhetoric will cover the fact that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. This is not the right sub-forum for your little liberal rant.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:24 AM
 
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
2,117 posts, read 5,328,806 times
Reputation: 3517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George View Post
This is not the right sub-forum for your little liberal rant.
I rest my case.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:43 AM
 
26,848 posts, read 19,092,607 times
Reputation: 14337
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
Bt-Corn: What It Is and How It Works | University of Kentucky Entomology
The Science Creative Quarterly » BT CORN: IS IT WORTH THE RISK?

Bt crops work because the plants have been engineered to produce proteins fatal to certain insect orders when ingested. Which insect order gets affected is determined by which strain of Bt bacteria was used for the splicing and which protein the plants are engineered to produce.

In the case of Bt corn, the proteins (Bt Delta Endotoxin) are designed to target Lepidoptera (moths & butterflies) larvae and control corn borers. Unfortunately, the proteins aren't entirely selective to just corn borers, and do kill other non-target moths and butterflies (such as monarch butterflies); and have the potential to affect other non-target insect orders besides Lepidoptera.

Since these proteins are produced directly by the plant's cells (unlike Bt spray applications), it is entirely realistic to assume that they exist in any product made from those crops. Therefore, it not unreasonable to consider that a product containing those proteins (in this case corn syrup, but potentially even just the pollen) may have an adverse affect (not necessarily immediate death) when consumed by another insect, such as bees. Results of studies are incomplete, inconclusive and often conflicting.
while it is true that bt is not selective to just corn borers, it is selective to members of Lepidoptera [moths/butterflies].

i would be extremely skeptical that A) any significant amounts of bt are found in karo syrup, and B] even if bt is present, that it would have any detrimental effect on honeybees - particularly on the basis of nothing more than hearsay from a beekeeper.

also, the PNAS paper alleging harm to monarch butterflies has been effectively shot down:
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/br/btcorn/index.html#bt1
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