How many people concerned with Green Issues are Vegetarians? (heating, natural, environment)

[AnonChick]

Originally Posted by sheena12

Actually, if the steak is factory farmed, you can't.

But this topic isn't about factory farming, and you -can- eat steak from beef that wasn't factory farmed. So it's irrelevent.

[Big George]

Originally Posted by sheena12

Actually, if the steak is factory farmed, you can't.

The real problem is that neither you, nor anybody else who is always screaming about "factory farms" has any idea what and where these elusive factory farms may actually be.


Question: Near where my family used to live, there is a dairy that milks 4,000 head of cows per day. Is that a Family Farm or a Factory Farm?

[MissingAll4Seasons]

Originally Posted by Big George

The real problem is that neither you, nor anybody else who is always screaming about "factory farms" has any idea what and where these elusive factory farms may actually be.


Question: Near where my family used to live, there is a dairy that milks 4,000 head of cows per day. Is that a Family Farm or a Factory Farm?

That would depend on whether that farm kept their herd in confinement at a high stocking density, or whether their herd grazed on adequately-sized pasture when it wasn't milking time.

[Big George]

Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons

That would depend on whether that farm kept their herd in confinement at a high stocking density, or whether their herd grazed on adequately-sized pasture when it wasn't milking time.

No, that's really not the defining characteristic.

It appears that you live in Alaska... In the dead of winter, do you want to be wandering around outside, or would you rather be inside?

I grew up on a dairy farm in the northern part of the continental US. I know what happens to dairy cattle, when they're out in the pasture, in the dead of summer or winter.

Give me a giant "loafing shed" any day.

[MissingAll4Seasons]

There's a world of difference between providing a loafing shed for your animal's comfort and protection and confining them to it because it makes your life easier.

We do have to confine our animals in the winter for their own protection due to the extreme climate. But again, there is a world of difference between necessity and convenience.

[redwolf fan]

Some of you should tour some of those loafing barns

On hot summer days,they are the most comfortable place on the farm

The cattle have huge fans circulating fresh air,dry bedding to lay down in, flies under control, and cold water and feed available at all times,

The cattle are more comfortable than many humans

Remember"...........A cow that is uncomfortable is not gonna produce milk

[redwolf fan]

Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons

That would depend on whether that farm kept their herd in confinement at a high stocking density, or whether their herd grazed on adequately-sized pasture when it wasn't milking time.

????????????????

How could a 4,000 cow herd be pastured?

The logistics would be impossible!

[MissingAll4Seasons]

Common usage generally define "factory farms" Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation (CAFO), Confined Animal Feeding Operation (CAFO), Industrial Agricultural Operation (IAO), or Industrial Livestock Operation (ILO).

According to the EPA definitions:

Animal Feeding Operation (AFO)
Lot or facility (other than an aquatic animal production facility) where the following conditions are met:

• Animals (other than aquatic animals) have been, are, or will be stabled or confined and fed or maintained for a total of 45 days or more in any 12-month period, and
• Crops, vegetation, forage growth, or post-harvest residues are not sustained in the normal growing season over any portion of the lot or facility.

[40 CFR 122.23(b)(1)]

The EPA considers a dairy with more than 200 mature cows to be a Medium CAFO and more than 700 mature cows to be a Large CAFO.

So, by those definitions, that 4000 head dairy would be a large CAFO, and therefore fits the common definition of a factory farm. It may be a family-operated factory farm, but a factory farm nonetheless. The only way around it would be to have less animals, not confine them, reduce the duration they are confined, or provide sustained vegetation in the confinement area during the growing season.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons

There's a world of difference between providing a loafing shed for your animal's comfort and protection and confining them to it because it makes your life easier.

We do have to confine our animals in the winter for their own protection due to the extreme climate. But again, there is a world of difference between necessity and convenience.

Exactly.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by AnonChick

But this topic isn't about factory farming, and you -can- eat steak from beef that wasn't factory farmed. So it's irrelevent.

No it's not. However meat is not the most sustainable and earth friendly thing one can eat - no matter how it is farmed. The amount of water and grain that go into raising one cow could feed many more people. No I don't have the stats ready. Look them up yourself.

It's a fact. Raising cattle is wasteful from an environmental standpoint, it is not Earth Friendly.