Need Help choosing life choice to achieve voluntary simplicity (solar panels, pollution, buy)

[Erotic_Cowboy]

First let me say that there are only three things I need in life to be happy myself. A bed to sleep on, food to eat, minimal living space and computer. Secondly, I hate wasting money. My ultimate goal is to reduce my yearly living expenses over the long term down to between 5,000 and 10,000 dollars. I also want to get the hell out of the city and move back to the country.

I have been thinking lately about becoming a minimalist and leading a life a voluntary simplicity. I have been debating several different ways of living and am having a hard time choosing the right style of living that would fit me best. My thoughts are from a single person point of view.

I have also been thinking about getting a vasectomy, I like children and think it would be nice to have children of my own, however I refuse to accept the responsibility, emotional and financial burden that children bring. The future is too uncertain for me to justify having children, I don't want to go through what many families have been force to go through with this recession or what people of the Great Depression era had to live though with children. I also enjoy my freedom.

With that being said, I've narrowed my choices down to 4 ways of living. The first option I have been thinking about the most. The choices are a truck camper, tiny house, underground bunker or lifetime apartment rental. Ideally the one that is cheapest over the long term is a big consideration.

With the truck camper I consider this to be extreme minimalism. With 160 sq feet of living space. I like that that it is mobile, offers quick escape if should ever need to move. However living in a truck camper makes me realized that it is off-grid but dependent upon the grid for propane and fuel for travel. It is semi-career, semi-computer friendly, would offer marginal internet access depending on where I was at the time. I would need to have a truck to carry the camper, and depending on the state I was in at the time, it should be semi-gun friendly. But then again I would never travel any non-gun friendly states. Having the truck would be environmentally unsound, but only when I have to move, staying put as much as possible and having reduced my current life down to that of a truck camper would off set my personal impact in the long run. I estimate that it would cost about $30,000 to purchase a truck camper. If I require a larger truck than the one I have now it would be about $50,000 for the truck, so the starting costs for the life is about $80,000. The greatest thing I like about this choice is that I could spend my life traveling and living in the forests and mountainous national parks aroud the country and the size feels comfortable at least it does when I look at the pictures of the camper.

The next living choice is to build a tiny house. The tiny house I have found is about 750 square ft. I would consider this choice to be a normal minimalist choice. It allows for total off-grid living, it's computer friendly and I could have full time internet access, though not too important. It is career friendly and depending on where I build, gun friendly. The caveats to this choice is that it requires the purchase of land and the payment of property taxes. The cost for materials is about $60,000 and to have someone build it for me could cost about another $80,000 in labor according to estimations I have done. I do however worry about a future housing market crash and do not want to loose what I would have built.

Now for the underground bunker, I know what you're properly thinking. Am I an End of the World believer, No I am not. I just thought it would always be cool to live in and underground bunker. Having watched Tremors and Blast from the past growing up, I always thought it would be cool to live underground. It's environmentally sound in the long run and doesn't trample habitats or take a way from natural habitats once it's in the ground. I estimate that it would cost about between $30,000 and $50,000 to build and install and underground bunker to live in. It would have between 300 and 600 sq ft of living space but it requires the purchase of land and payment of property taxes. It allows for off-grid living, it's gun friendly, computer friendly and offers complete protection in the event of a disaster.

The last and final choice is the same as where I am now, but it don't enjoy it. That is renting an apartment. It costs me about $6,000 a year in rent to live here plus all my other expenses. The fact that this requires me to have a $54,000 salary tells me some thing I'm not getting closer to achieving voluntary simplicity but instead am moving further away from it. However I don't like living around other people. I enjoy having my own space and would prefer that my neighbor and I not be separated by a wall of drywall or floor. Living in an apartment requires me to be connected and dependent upon the grid. It offers no tactical protection in the event of a disaster, and while it is computer friendly, the apartment is old and falling apart i seems. It feels only semi-minimalist to me, my apartment is about 860 sq ft and it seems way too big for me, but for the price it's the cheapest one in the area.

I'm gonna hate it when the $60,000 college tuition bill comes due next year after I graduate from my bachelors program, Kind of somewhat wished I wouldn't have taken on the expense but it's too late now.
That's all I can think of for now, but I hope everyone can help me sort through all this and help me make a concrete decision.

[Shankapotomus]

I like the tiny house idea, personally, because it is your own land and you can control when you do and don't want people around you. Also,you have not listed houseboat as an option.

However, here another option somewhat crazy in its approach:

The great thing about this idea is I do not see any way for the authorities to stop or control you once you build it.

You get a platform about the smallest size you think you can comfortably live on and attach maybe four of those large black solar balloons people use to float themselves in the air (consult youtube) and maybe a small hot air balloon in the middle just in case, and float that thing at a low altitude off the coast of cali for instance with your solar panels and mifi and all your gadgets and just hang out. It's floating in the air so hey can't tax it as land. If they say you can't do that to hell with them....just float away out to international waters and declare yourself no loner under the jurisdiction of united states authority. My guess is your home would be so unusual they wouldn't know what to do and leave you alone.

No property taxes. No mooring fees. No other people at 10,000 feet. You anchor the thing and throw down a rope ladder when you need supplies. You move anywhere you want to avoid bad weather, even float over clouds to avoid rain and charge your solar panel batteries. Sell tickets for rides up in it. You're golden...No one could stop you. You'd be an unstoppable human being.

[Erotic_Cowboy]

Thanks for the laugh, I've seen UP. As far as the houseboat option, I prefer land over sea.

[cittic10]

An alternative style home that's not a windowless "bunker" but still offer many of the same benefits would be an earth-sheltered home. They're an environmentally friendly and efficient living structure. Theres a couple of good books on building them.
I don't think the truck camper is a good idea if you're planning on staying in the same location for any real amount of time. They aren't energy efficient and it won't be comfortable. You still will have to find a place to park it, fill it, dump it, maintain it etc. Map out a 5x8' box on your floor and try living in that space for a few days and let me know how that goes.
RVs rapidly depreciate whereas if you built a cabin or small home, that would more than likely go up in value considerably or at the least, you'd probably have some appreciation on the value of the land and improvements such as septic and well.
There's really nothing minimalist about an RV. For minimalist traveling, refer to backpacking.

You could also buy a yurt kit. You need to build a deck for it but that's pretty quick and easy. Doubtful you'd even need a permit for it.You can build a small cabin or bungalow. You can build a cabin for a lot less than 60k by the way.

I think you're spot on with the not having kids thing. I wish more people would think it through as thoroughly as you have and consider all the expenses and also consider that our population is growing at an unsustainable rate. There aren't enough honest ways to make a living for all the humans as it is. We keep needing to plow down more and more forests and natural areas to erect wasteful housing and grow food for everyone. And that's to say nothing of the pollution.

I also couldn't agree more on not wanting to live near other people. It sounds you and I are two of a kind.

[Shankapotomus]

Earthship

[Erotic_Cowboy]

cittic10: I have thought about the earth shelters, but in the area where I live if I was to build underground it would have to be completely enclosed to prevent flooding. If there was and underground home that was open to the surface there would need to be an extensive drainage system to prevent flooding. A dome ceiling would do the job but that negates the whole reason for building the home underground in the first place. The purpose of the underground home is that it will not be visible on the surface.

As far as space requirements go, I think I could handle living in a small space. I currently only have a bed and desk where my computer sits. I have no other furniture, it's been that way since I first moved in to my apartment And the apartment feels way to big for me at them moment with 860 sq ft.

Sure I could buy more furniture to fill up the space, but that detracts from my goal of voluntary simplicity.

[cittic10]

Originally Posted by Erotic_Cowboy

cittic10: I have thought about the earth shelters, but in the area where I live if I was to build underground it would have to be completely enclosed to prevent flooding. If there was and underground home that was open to the surface there would need to be an extensive drainage system to prevent flooding. A dome ceiling would do the job but that negates the whole reason for building the home underground in the first place. The purpose of the underground home is that it will not be visible on the surface.

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I admit, earth sheltered homes are pretty complex and a lot of things can go wrong with them if vital steps- especially with drainage are not done adequately. In my area, I'd actually have more of a concern over radon than anything else so they aren't automatically the best structure for everyone. The main point is, you can build your own living structure with skills that you learn in books and online and using the help of others and not have to waste fortunes on rent and mortgages.

(((

Originally Posted by Erotic_Cowboy

As far as space requirements go, I think I could handle living in a small space. I currently only have a bed and desk where my computer sits. I have no other furniture, it's been that way since I first moved in to my apartment And the apartment feels way to big for me at them moment with 860 sq ft. Sure I could buy more furniture to fill up the space, but that detracts from my goal of voluntary simplicity.

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Nail on the head. The more shtuff we can do without, the less space we need. Furniture is not essential for survival. Furniture isn't even essential to having a high quality of life. And in our Consumer vs. Conserver culture, the Consumers buy big houses (to enclose mostly shtuff they don't really need) and end up having to fill them up with furniture and the Conservers skip all of that and can get by with a smaller house, and less empty rooms, albeit tastefully appointed empty rooms.

Where are you located, by the way?

[GregW]

Try a tent in a National Forest. Move with the seasons. Pay for it by writing a successful book on how to live in a National Forest in a minimalist tent.

Instead of a campground file a mining claim and do enough "development" work to live there.

[nuala]

Of course, the first thing you need to look at, is - Why are your current minimum living expenses $54,000 per only you, the single person? If you could dwindle that down before building castles from mashed potatoes, that may be a start. Your apartment is $6,000 a year. Your food $1,200 a year. The rest can be tweaked.

A truck (or any vehicle) may get any number of problems from being idle for extended periods of time (or just because of a rainy night). That would be OK for someone who could fix a vehicle. (=> auto mechanic course).

Building a tiny house doesn't need to be outsourced. The lumber for a 10x16' building is around $2,000 (from mill). Plus cement plus shingles plus interior. ~ $10K tops for the house. (=> carpentry course).

The simplest off-grid system (solar panels/batteries/connectors or windmill/batteries/connectors) these days is $1K, installed by you (=> read appropriate literature). This system will run lights and computer, but not washer/dryer (but then the voluntary simplicity person can wash the couple of pair of clothes himself in a bucket).

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So, the plan: get your current expenses down to at least $20K a year, get a job, start paying off your student loan, and start saving. Get carpentry/automotive/electrical skills in the evenings. No need to get into these huge outlays of $50K truck or $80K tiny house.

And, start searching for a piece of land in a rural area, where you could buy one for under $20K.

[Erotic_Cowboy]

Originally Posted by cittic10

Where are you located, by the way?

Currently living in Columbia, SC but looking to move back to my home state of Wyoming here soon.

Originally Posted by nula

Of course, the first thing you need to look at, is - Why are your current minimum living expenses $54,000 per only you, the single person? If you could dwindle that down before building castles from mashed potatoes, that may be a start. Your apartment is $6,000 a year. Your food $1,200 a year. The rest can be tweaked.

I must be doing something wrong if my food is about 2,500 - 3,000/yr of course I'm a carnivorousness meat eater. I have to have a piece of meat in every meal. I'm working on getting rid of unnecessary expenses. As soon as my contract is up in October I think it is, I'll be getting rid of my cell phone because it is an unnecessary expense for me since I never use it, what with Skype and all. I'll like switch to pay as you go I really need a cell phone.

The air conditioning unit in my apartment complex is not very energy efficient, It's the same unit that has likely been there since the place was built in the 1980's. So my electrical bill isn't the greatest. I've been living in this apartment for the past 4 years.