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Old 10-31-2012, 01:48 AM
 
913 posts, read 748,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
Surplus renewable energy can be stored in batteries to make up for peak demand or lack of conducive weather... so alternatives aren't completely useless. The economic model and logistics of large scale power companies is so convoluted it's mind-boggling.

As for the ere other lower-tech and more efficient means of methanol production. This seems to be a more complicated and potentially more resource intensive method than is actually required to produce the fuel... why use a nuclear bomb to kill a bug when a rolled up newspaper works just as well?fficacy of this particular tech, it might be viable to create liquid fuels from intermittent alternative power... but there a!

i don't agree with your first paragraph and my main point still stands in that with or without alternatives (excluding hydro, because hydro can be used when needed) energy from conventional sources ie coal, gas, nuclear, will be consumed in the same amounts whether the alternatives are there or not. perhaps if we had an independent specific battery charging infrastructure that might work.

i agree with your second paragraph. the eroei on conversion to liquid gas is too low. there are more efficient ways.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
554 posts, read 616,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammbriggs View Post
i don't agree with your first paragraph and my main point still stands in that with or without alternatives (excluding hydro, because hydro can be used when needed) energy from conventional sources ie coal, gas, nuclear, will be consumed in the same amounts whether the alternatives are there or not. perhaps if we had an independent specific battery charging infrastructure that might work.

i agree with your second paragraph. the eroei on conversion to liquid gas is too low. there are more efficient ways.
The most efficient method of storing large quantities of energy is by using pumped storage. i.e. Excess energy from wind/solar is used to power pumps which pump water uphill into a resevoir which can later be converted back to electricity through hydro power. It's a reasonably efficient process (up to 94% efficient) but it's highly dependent on climate (i.e. losses to evaporation) and the distance and efficiency of power lines from original point of generation to the pumped storage. It's also less attractive over the short term as the capital costs of building the infrastructure compares unfavourably with burning another ton of coal or natural gas, however over the longer term the cost diminishes rapidly, which is why most countries are investing in more pumped storage facilities.

Eoin
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
3,718 posts, read 4,775,225 times
Reputation: 1454
Quote:
Originally Posted by elfstorage View Post
No offense dude but it's probably a pipe dream. Look at this quote from your article:

"Air Fuel Synthesis says they’ve produced five liters of gasoline in less than three months from a small refinery. It’s a small start, and the plan is to ramp up production to a larger scale: The current two-year plan is to build a large plant capable of producing a metric ton of gas every day."

FIVE LITERS OF GAS?! Gee that's about a gallon. All that effort to get just me to work but not back home? Even the plans for a large plant to produce a metric ton is next to nothing. But hey, here's hoping at least.
Just so you know; it's not his article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
to be accurate, this company is creating liquid fuel out of sodium hydroxide, air and electricity.

"Carbon-neutral" is also slightly misleading, just because the process captures and reuses atmospheric and released CO2 during processing doesn't mean that all the electricity required for these reactions to occur doesn't create a huge carbon debt (assuming the power comes from a conventional coal/oil power plant).

I don't know how viable this is, regardless of scale/quantity, because anytime you must use additional power to change the form/state of another power, it's a lossy reaction.
And you seem to know your stuff. Chemistry major back in college?
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:09 PM
 
217 posts, read 296,055 times
Reputation: 67
When you have an cheap source of high temperatures, as the output from a gas cooled nuclear reactor does, liquid fuels can truly be made from air. A Los Alamos drew up a plan to use non-electrical processes to capture CO2, split water, and combine to make hydrocarbons. NY Times Advertisement
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:13 PM
 
Location: DC
6,512 posts, read 6,436,022 times
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Nuclear and cheap don't belong together in the same sentence.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:20 PM
 
217 posts, read 296,055 times
Reputation: 67
Cheap as in fuel. As labor gets cheaper on path to the new US socialized economy, the current nuclear fuel cost may go up in proportion to total operating cost of a reactor. But current 15% fueling cost of the total is still pretty good. And that is using mined uranium, which is not going away anytime soon.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:58 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,834,071 times
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The application has been more directed towards the US Navy with its bunch of Nuke powered Aircraft Carriers, and planes that operate on liquid fuels.

Allows them to make fuel on the go, and in theater.
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