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Old 11-20-2012, 08:32 PM
 
28 posts, read 78,690 times
Reputation: 26

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Moderator cut: This post is compromised entirely from Copyrighted Material and discussions from outside forums, which violates the City-Data Terms of Service.

Last edited by MissingAll4Seasons; 11-24-2012 at 04:16 PM.. Reason: Copyright Violation
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:38 PM
 
28 posts, read 78,690 times
Reputation: 26
Moderator cut: Copyright Violation and cross-posting multiple forums is not allowed
Energy saving bulbs makes my home look like a morgue

Last edited by MissingAll4Seasons; 11-24-2012 at 04:24 PM.. Reason: Copyright Violation, Cross-Posting
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:39 PM
 
28 posts, read 78,690 times
Reputation: 26
Moderator cut: Copyright Violation

Last edited by MissingAll4Seasons; 11-24-2012 at 04:26 PM..
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:54 PM
 
15,921 posts, read 19,292,367 times
Reputation: 7675
Nothing like a super long winded OP topic that has been beaten to death here.....

Question About CFL and other Energy Efficient Lighbulbs

Another Incandescent Lightbulb Thread

CFLs contain carcinogens according to German study

CFL Lightbulbs..... MERCURY ! !

CFL Lighting Experiences

News, A new twist for light bulbs that conserve energy.

Compact Flourescent Light Bulbs

And there a over a dozen more......

Suggestion to the OP: Post links and a quick synopsis, we are adults here and can follow URL's. Posting humongous threads does show your IQ is any higher than anyone else here....

Last edited by plwhit; 11-20-2012 at 09:16 PM..
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:01 PM
 
15,921 posts, read 19,292,367 times
Reputation: 7675
OP, not all states are goose-stepping to the American nanny government:

Texas Incandescent Light Bulb Bill Becomes Law

Quote:
Gov. Rick Perry has signed into law a bill that would permit the manufacture and sale of incandescent light bulbs within the state of Texas, thus circumnavigating a federal law banning their use by 2012.

So, unless and until the law is overturned in the courts, it will still be legal for Texans to buy traditional incandescent light bulbs in lieu of the more energy efficient, but also much more expensive and environmentally hazardous florescent light bulbs. That is at least in theory. Tungsten, an element in incandescent light bulbs, is not mined in Texas. If it is imported from out of state, a court might suggest that it makes the home grown manufacture of light bulbs interstate commerce and thus subject to the federal ban
Texas Incandescent Light Bulb Bill Becomes Law - Yahoo! News
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:24 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,522,954 times
Reputation: 3565
Wow talk about anti-environmental spin. The numbers are clear and unequivocal, CFLs save energy and are good for the environment.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:43 PM
 
28 posts, read 78,690 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
The numbers are clear and unequivocal, CFLs save energy and are good for the environment.
The truth is just not as simple as that. CFLs have been zealously promoted as "environmentally friendly" because they produce more lumens of light per watt. But if we are to evaluate whether they are better or worse for the environment, there are many other factors to consider. The biggest promoters of these spiral bulbs have been the big light bulb corporations, including utility companies that are often owned by the same parent corporation. Most of the information being touted by environmental groups is actually originating from the marketing departments of these corporations. I think at least some level of suspicion is appropriate. Many of the statistics being put out can be misleading.

The questions environmental groups need to be asking is:
1. how much pollution does the production in China of a CFL bulb result in?
2. statistically how long will CFL bulbs last in real world situations?
3. how many CFL bulbs will be used in situations that will cause them to burn out faster?
4. will consumers actually take the trouble to recycle their CFLs?
5. how much energy does the recycling process consume to recover the mercury from these bulbs?
6. how much light are these CFL bulbs actually putting out, including at the beginning, after 6 months, and towards the end of the bulbs rated life?
7. How do the cheap inferior quality CFLs being sold in stores affect the statistics of how long these bulbs last, and how fast they begin to lose their light output as they age?
7. How much energy do incandescent bulbs save on heating energy? Are CFLs still a good idea in colder climates?
8. CFLs have worse performance in several specific situations. Considering this decrease in performance, is it still worth phasing out incandescent bulbs?
9. Do environmental considerations outweigh potential health problems these bulbs may cause for a small group of people? Statistically how much pollution will result from the increase in health problems?

As you can see, there are a lot of factors to consider.
CFLs can potentially save energy in some situations, but in other situations their energy savings may be much less, or even worse for the environment. Much depends on how educated consumers are about the complexities of knowing where and whether to use CFLs.

Because there are so many inferior quality CFLs being sold, the fire hazard of using CFLs are also greater than using a regular incandescent bulb. While the danger of fire is still very small, this could still be significant consideration. If one house fire will result from every 10,000 CFL bulbs sold, will the energy savings from the 10,000 CFL bulbs be greater than the total pollution resulting from the 1 house fire? Think about the repainting and replacement of belongings, and the workers who will have to drive their trucks to do the special cleaning. The financial risk alone might completely negate any environmental benefit, let alone the tremendous pollution a house fire can indirectly cause.

Last edited by SaveTheIncandescent; 11-21-2012 at 02:52 PM..
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:51 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,522,954 times
Reputation: 3565
The environmental groups have asked and answered all the relevant questions. Someone shilling for the coal industry will always have more "questions."
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:54 PM
 
28 posts, read 78,690 times
Reputation: 26
Or environmental groups and governments unwittingly shilling for the light bulb industry.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
The numbers are clear, CFLs save energy and are good for the environment.
The numbers are not clear. Environmental groups have not bothered to ask the important questions.
And some of their answers to the few questions they have asked are just blatently incorrect (for example, their response that incandescent bulbs result in more mercury pollution because of the coal power plants it takes to power them)

Here's a typical example of the type of arguments being used to "answer" the questions. I actually found this on an official city government website trying to promote CFLs:
Quote:
Myth: CFLs don't save money because my heating system has to work harder to produce the lost heat I would have received from my regular incandescent.
Reality: The heat lost when switching from an incandescent to a CFL has a negligible effect on your heating system.The heat that emanates from incandescent bulbs tends to hang up near the ceiling, and has little effect on your thermostat.
No doubt this was written by some self-proclaimed ill-informed environmentalist trying to defend the spiral light bulbs she was trying to promote. Even if the heat effect truely is "negligible", one could logically argue that the potential energy saving themselves from CFL are also "negligible" compared to the energy consumption of the heating system. In any case, this does nothing to adress the original argument itself: that it is pointless to try to prevent electric power from being converted to heat while one is also using energy to heat the home at the same time. I suppose an argument could be made if only using a wood burning fireplace to heat the home (biofuel), but how many commonly people do that? All heat tends to rise upward toward the ceilling. A heating system typically has a fan that pushes the air around. This movement of air will also push around the air towards the ceilling. And if the air near the ceilling is already warm, it will just prevent more of the warm air from the heater from also similarly rising and being "wasted".

here's a video:
not so free light bulbs - farmer laboratory - YouTube

(keep in mind that this video was actually made by a farmer who cares about the environment)
http://missoulian.com/news/local/missoula-man-says-compact-fluorescent-light-bulbs-not-a-bright/article_127ed1d4-0da1-11e1-9dd3-001cc4c03286.html

Last edited by SaveTheIncandescent; 11-21-2012 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:57 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, Tx
8,228 posts, read 9,906,622 times
Reputation: 10127
Im not even reading all of that.

If you want me to subscribe to your agenda, put it in a handful of bullet-points that dont start with "Call me Ishmael"
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