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Old 12-03-2012, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
5,676 posts, read 6,747,035 times
Reputation: 10232

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
Philip, Thanks for the numbers. I'm not so much impressed by the time to charge because I like to get at least 8 hours of sleep per night. But the cost to charge is impressive! 150 miles for $3.40 or 2.25 cents per mile. My truck costs me $.20/mile for fuel and my small car costs me about $.13/mile.
The Tesla is getting the equivlant of 150 miles/gallon.
At first glance, those numbers look good...but they don't work, at least not for me.

My electric cost is about .14, which is about 80% higher. That's just the 'generation' charge, then you have to add in the 'delivery' charge which is about the same as the generation charge per KWH. That makes the total .28 per KWH, which is more than three times higher than the nice sounding .08. (Incidentally, the same fanciful 'cost' is used on the 'energy efficiency' tags seen on appliances these days which irks me because it's BS and doesn't represent the *true* cost of operating the appliance.)
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:34 PM
 
3,047 posts, read 2,179,605 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Most large corporations in the US are content to not innovate. Why take a chance and risk anything if you can pay for the government not to allow foriegn competition in?

The problem was seen in the auto industry when there was a market for smaller cars. The US companies sat on their thumbs while VW brought out the Beetle, which sold very well.

The problem was seen with a viable hybrid car. The US companies had nothing while Toyota came out with the Prius. The US President was telling the public a sob story about it being twenty years before a fuel efficient car would be on the US market when the Prius came out. What do you make of that?

American auto companies are not known as innovators. They are followers. We are supposed to have a capitalist system. They should not have been bailed out.
Agreed.

The company Altairnano might get somewhere with their Nanosafe battery though. They have backing from the Navy to develop the battery so that it can replace the diesel generators on the Frigates and Destroyers.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:52 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,827,766 times
Reputation: 3955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zymer View Post
At first glance, those numbers look good...but they don't work, at least not for me.

My electric cost is about .14, which is about 80% higher. That's just the 'generation' charge, then you have to add in the 'delivery' charge which is about the same as the generation charge per KWH. That makes the total .28 per KWH, which is more than three times higher than the nice sounding .08. (Incidentally, the same fanciful 'cost' is used on the 'energy efficiency' tags seen on appliances these days which irks me because it's BS and doesn't represent the *true* cost of operating the appliance.)

I just punched in 8 cents because that is what our local total billing is.

Real deal is we can get the electricity for free, for that matter.

But if you hit the link to the calculator, you should be able to put in any number you want.

So for me, it works out that a typical 150 mile trip would be around $30 if Gasoline v. $3.40 for the electricity.

That "delta" or difference works to about $66 a week or a little over $3000 a year for me.

Your mileage may vary.

Last edited by Philip T; 12-03-2012 at 10:00 PM..
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:59 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,827,766 times
Reputation: 3955
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
If the President promises under his plans electricity costs will necessarily skyrocket who in their right mind would buy an electric car?
huh? Speaking of right mind . . . do you make sense to you?

I mean really?

Electricity is vastly surplus (combination of the Great Recession, increased renewable, cheap NG, and conservation-really-works). Who, What, When, Where are promises for "plans electricity costs will necessarily skyrocket . . . " etc?

Or by If do you mean like . . . IF . . .

If a comet hits the Sun and bounces off and hits the Moon, will the cheese on the Moon fall to the Earth?

ok. Enough of that. Really, makes no sense?

What are you talking about?
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:58 AM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,373,501 times
Reputation: 7641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
huh? Speaking of right mind . . . do you make sense to you?

I mean really?

Electricity is vastly surplus (combination of the Great Recession, increased renewable, cheap NG, and conservation-really-works). Who, What, When, Where are promises for "plans electricity costs will necessarily skyrocket . . . " etc?

Washington sweats and tempers fray as power outage continues

Washington sweats and tempers fray as power outage continues | World news | guardian.co.uk

America’s Looming Power Shortage

America

Current power outages: A glimpse into America's future under the EPA and 0bamacare?

Current power outages: A glimpse into America's future under the EPA and 0bamacare? | From the Right | IrishCentral

BTW, I notice you have no explanation on why the EV has been such a dismal failure in the marketplace, seems all you do is post technobabble and think people will take you seriously....
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:36 AM
 
Location: DC
6,507 posts, read 6,426,164 times
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It's really silly to suggest that EVs will affect electricity prices to any large extent. Most EVs will be recharged at night when there is ample capacity in both generation and T&D. Suggesting prices will change much is just Exxon propaganda.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:42 PM
 
Location: OR
716 posts, read 1,079,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
It's really silly to suggest that EVs will affect electricity prices to any large extent. Most EVs will be recharged at night when there is ample capacity in both generation and T&D. Suggesting prices will change much is just Exxon propaganda.
I would agree there is ample capacity. As an electrical contractor for the past 25 years the total load on the typical house we wire now has dropped dramatically from 10-15 years ago. The AC systems in particular consume half of what they did back in the 90's and most new and remodeled homes are much more efficient on multiple levels. There is absolutely plenty of capacity to charge EV's in my region of the country.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:55 PM
 
Location: DC
6,507 posts, read 6,426,164 times
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Again the entire electrical system in most areas of the country is designed for the hottest summer day. EVs will charge a night.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:38 PM
 
2,737 posts, read 4,317,144 times
Reputation: 1785
There are 3 problems that have to be overcome, before Electric Vehicles will ever be more than an expensive hobby.

1. The cost of the Electric Car has to drop significantly - and I mean SIGNIFICANTLY. Who are we kidding? American consumers are NOT going to pay $15,000 MORE for a car that gives them LESS performance and reliability.

2. Battery technology has to improve. A car that has no more than a 50-100 mile driving range will never be more than a back-up, or a second, vehicle. Any person who currently owns an electric car ALSO has to own a regular car. That has to change.

3. Americans have to be honest about the fact that you do NOT get something for nothing. Plugging in an electric car is NOT free energy. If/when the day comes that most Americans have electric cars, they will see their electric bills go up from $100 - $200 per month. Energy is NOT free.


The day may come when Electric Cars are the norm. But we're still a long way off.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:10 PM
 
Location: DC
6,507 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3107
None of the above is true, but it's a cute story.
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