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Old 12-06-2012, 08:36 AM
 
2,737 posts, read 4,344,874 times
Reputation: 1785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Looking at getting on the list.

$5000 just to get a place in line.
Right.

Everything I've read about them leads me to believe that the Teslas are probably the best EV on the market. And for the price, they danged well better be! But even their biggest fans will admit that there are problems that still have not been solved. I think those problems with EVs eventually WILL be solved, but they have not yet been.

I myself am a pragmatist when it comes to vehicles. My car is a fun way to get where I need to go (an old Volvo I restored). My truck is necessary, for obvious reasons. And I ride a big non-Harley v-twin motorcycle, simply because I like riding. No payments, lowest insurance and licensing costs possible, and pretty good mileage from all of them. I pay a mere fraction, to own & operate all of them, of what I would pay for 1 Tesla. Therefore, because I drive for practical reasons, I will probably never own a Tesla - and likely never own an EV (though the hybrid Prius holds promise).

So... People looking to buy and drive Teslas are NOT doing so for practical reasons - because they are simply not a practical car. The reasons for wanting one are entirely different, and something that Tesla has obviously tapped into. Tesla has tapped into a niche market that the Chevy Volt obviously failed to fill, and for obvious reasons.


EVs will not - in the near future - become mainstream automobiles. Possibly never. But that's okay.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,690 posts, read 89,213,000 times
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The strength of the Tesla Model S is that it was designed all along to be a higher-end niche car and is actually somewhat competitively priced against its segment's ICE counterparts. The Volt is supposed to appeal to a more mass-market audience but it's priced out of the reach of much of that audience. Another advantage is serious Tesla shoppers can actually take full advantage of the non-refundable $7500 federal tax credit.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:44 AM
 
2,737 posts, read 4,344,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
The strength of the Tesla Model S is that it was designed all along to be a higher-end niche car and is actually somewhat competitively priced against its segment's ICE counterparts. The Volt is supposed to appeal to a more mass-market audience but it's priced out of the reach of much of that audience. Another advantage is serious Tesla shoppers can actually take full advantage of the non-refundable $7500 federal tax credit.
Right.

In other words, the Tesala S really isn't even about being and EV. It's about other things.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,690 posts, read 89,213,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George View Post
Right.

In other words, the Tesala S really isn't even about being and EV. It's about other things.
Well, with a name like Tesla it's hard for it to escape its conspicuous EV-ness. It just happens to be an EV that's actually worth being in and driving and not just a hopped-up golf cart or a conventional car with the ICE replaced with an electric motor accompanied with a $10,000 upcharge. In short, it's an electric car that early adopters actually want to adopt.

As for me, I'm holding out for the Tango to hit mass production since it looks like a blast and would be insanely useful in the dense city traffic I have to cope with. Unfortunately they just can't find an investor to finance their mass production plans.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:58 AM
 
2,737 posts, read 4,344,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
Well, with a name like Tesla it's hard for it to escape its conspicuous EV-ness. It just happens to be an EV that's actually worth being in and driving and not just a hopped-up golf cart or a conventional car with the ICE replaced with an electric motor accompanied with a $10,000 upcharge. In short, it's an electric car that early adopters actually want to adopt.

As for me, I'm holding out for the Tango to hit mass production since it looks like a blast and would be insanely useful in the dense city traffic I have to cope with. Unfortunately they just can't find an investor to finance their mass production plans.
Urban municipalities could certain make vehicles like the Tango more appealing. A few designated lanes, and some dedicated downtown parking would be a step in the right direction.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,690 posts, read 89,213,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George View Post
Urban municipalities could certain make vehicles like the Tango more appealing. A few designated lanes, and some dedicated downtown parking would be a step in the right direction.
Just the fact that lane-splitting is legal in Illinois makes it worth the while here.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:03 AM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,420,666 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
That is purdy.

Very Nice.

Is your taste in wimmen as good as your taste in cars?
Childish as usual I see....

Quote:
An electric vehicle costs nearly $20,000 more than a similar conventional gas car, takes hours to recharge, and has a limited—and uncertain—range. All in return for lowering energy costs by about half and emissions by about one-third, making them a particularly expensive way to reduce pollution.

How do electric vehicle proponents respond? Well, money isn't everything, you don't need to have a car available all the time, and most people don't really drive that far very often. These evasions alone should be a huge red flag: Nobody ever promotes a product that is much more expensive and performs much poorer than existing products by arguing, effectively, that consumers don't care.

Rationalizing away problems does not work in the real world. Electric car proponents often resort to claims of conspiracy or, more commonly, blame it on advertising, or the lack thereof. Consumers, the theory goes, are blinded by advertising to want silly things like comfort, availability, low costs, and good performance. If only GM had used gorgeous models to sell their first electric car, the Impact, it would have been successful, according to one talking head in Who Killed the Electric Car?

This kind of argument is common amongst activists of many types, but it often boils down to an effort to explain away differences in people's preferences from what the activists would choose for them.
Why the Electric Car Failed - On Energy (usnews.com)

Last edited by plwhit; 12-06-2012 at 09:54 AM..
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:26 AM
 
Location: DC
6,526 posts, read 6,461,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
The strength of the Tesla Model S is that it was designed all along to be a higher-end niche car and is actually somewhat competitively priced against its segment's ICE counterparts. The Volt is supposed to appeal to a more mass-market audience but it's priced out of the reach of much of that audience. Another advantage is serious Tesla shoppers can actually take full advantage of the non-refundable $7500 federal tax credit.
People sure talk out of both sides of their mouth on this thread. So the Volt is a fail EV, though some on here have called it a Hybrid, but the Prius isn't included in the discussions. LOL

I don't doubt that some EVs will fail, as have many ICEs. Toyota seems to be making a success of their HEV and PHEV. As long as that's the case, then we are achieving what was intended, a technology route that evolves away from reliance on imported oil. Whether the Volt and Leaf will succeed or go the way of the Pontiac, is yet to be decided.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,492 posts, read 51,385,768 times
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Default Economy car

Used Prius

I will be considering a used Prius as a potential economy car in the near future.

How is the battery pack evaluated?

Does a "dead" battery substantially lower the value of a used car.

Are batteries available at the junk yard?

How difficult are they to remove and install.

How well does the car operate with a dead battery?
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:56 AM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,848,958 times
Reputation: 3955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George View Post
Right.

Everything I've read about them leads me to believe that the Teslas are probably the best EV on the market. And for the price, they danged well better be! But even their biggest fans will admit that there are problems that still have not been solved. I think those problems with EVs eventually WILL be solved, but they have not yet been.
I think (everyone?) finally is to the agreement point that price is NOT the limiting factor. At least at this point of the game. Consider the 190X Oldsmobiles were going for something like $5000 (is that right? well over $100,000 current currency), the first Apple PCs which could barely do a spreadsheet were something like $2000 (in 30+ years ago currency), Bag Phone for something like $2000 . . . all had a market and things moved forward.

If EV/Hybrid/WTF(s) hit around 5 to 10% of any regional market . . . THEN look for the battery to be severely reduced / removed (really cheap, then) and Electric Roadways to start being the power source.

Quote:

I myself am a pragmatist when it comes to vehicles. My car is a fun way to get where I need to go (an old Volvo I restored). My truck is necessary, for obvious reasons. And I ride a big non-Harley v-twin motorcycle, simply because I like riding. No payments, lowest insurance and licensing costs possible, and pretty good mileage from all of them. I pay a mere fraction, to own & operate all of them, of what I would pay for 1 Tesla. Therefore, because I drive for practical reasons, I will probably never own a Tesla - and likely never own an EV (though the hybrid Prius holds promise).
Mentioned on here that my Go To Work truck is now 17 years old. And I bought it new. My prior truck was at similar age when I coasted 10 miles downhill in the Colorado Rocky Mountains, and into a dealership. I said I was there to get my truck fixed (toasted it hauling crap over the mountains). They laughed and said -- No. No, you are here to buy a new truck. They were right, I did.

If I switched to full electric, my estimated fuel savings would be around $5000 a year (at current prices).

Quote:

So... People looking to buy and drive Teslas are NOT doing so for practical reasons - because they are simply not a practical car. The reasons for wanting one are entirely different, and something that Tesla has obviously tapped into. Tesla has tapped into a niche market that the Chevy Volt obviously failed to fill, and for obvious reasons.
In my case, just looking for something to do with all the surplus electricity, and stop burning Oil.

But I have to have something put all three kids' butts in the backseat.

Quote:
EVs will not - in the near future - become mainstream automobiles. Possibly never. But that's okay.
All depends on the HIGHWAY . . . Not the BATTERY.

Have you seen this? PREA
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