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Old 12-17-2012, 09:32 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,417,256 times
Reputation: 7641

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sskink View Post
Keep being ignorant and reciting corporate talking points. You still have that right. As long as money continues to buy power, we'll have bad science accepted as fact.
The same could be said about the nonsensical paranoia some people have over things that technology has improved over the years....

As far as your OWS rant about corporations, well we saw just how ludicrous that movement was....

It's really strange that after having chemically treated food on the market consumed by millions over the past decades there has been no accredited instances of people getting sick because of them....

What's hilarious is we see the same thing over and over in this forum, when one doesn't agree that "they", "them" and the "BIG CORPORATIONS" are promulgating bad science and trying to poison almost everyone on the planet dissenters are told they are dumb, stupid and work for THE BIG CORPORATIONS....
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,410 posts, read 28,257,722 times
Reputation: 28995
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
It's just common sense to presume that a concoction of hundreds of agrochemicals we consume is dangerous.
It's rather unscientific to start with what "common sense" tells you and then go looking for evidence to support your foregone conclusion. Despite that, you have not found any evidence to support your "common sense," have you?

Quote:
Each day thousands of people die, get sick and disabled in multitude of ways. Since it's "unscientific" to presume that concoction of hundreds of agrochemicals (humans didn't evolve to consume) may have something to do with all of that. Do you have scientific data showing that food we eat have nothing to do with 30% cancer rates or mushrooming autism, for example? Again, precautionary principle puts the burden of the proof on you.
What 30% cancer rates? Cancer rates are decreasing. Would not "common sense" then say that your "agrochemicals" prevent cancer?

Do you have any evidence that anything in any food causes autism?

Hint: autism is most likely largely genetic.


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Seriously, I cannot understand your infatuation with sudden death as a research tool.
Who died? That's the whole point. You cannot name a single person who has died from the chemicals you are so sure are dangerous.

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Some mighty sick child psychologists suggested an idea of the bright colored junk drinks/foods to be peddled to kids. That's the only point of the brightly colored junk - to hook kids on it. As long as profits are involved, it's a sacred right of the agri biz to use all means necessary to squeeze a buck, no matter the potential risks, all precautionary principles be damned. One thing for sure, food colorings don't add to kid's health. Why risk, please, name me a single compelling reason to risk kids' health except the most obvious one?
What has agriculture got to do with food coloring? Are you saying no one should have any food or beverage with food coloring in it because someone might be sensitive to it?

Quote:
Yup, it's all about me, corporate bean counters do care about my bottom line. I want to cry, I got so emotional thinking about all that care and sacrifice. Food that cannot spoil for months and years (because no stupid microbe wants to eat it) is good for the corporate bottom-line, that's the only reason why it's on the shelves. And one may very well pay a very dear price for that wonder food in the future.
You are free to buy only food without preservatives if you wish. Grow your own. Make your own bread. Just eat it quickly, or you can watch the mold grow and then throw most of it away. By the way, some bread molds can make you sick. Be prepared to see your food budget grow rapidly and the variety of foods you have available shrink tremendously.

Quote:
I have still not seen any evidence that the residues of ractopamine in meat are not harmful to humans, especially considering 1521 food additives + hundreds of herbicides + pesticides+ hormones +.. it can interact with. Precautionary principle puts the burden of the proof on you. Also, I have not seen a compelling reason to use ractopamine.
The evidence that ractopamine is not harmful to humans lies in the lack of any reports of harm from the consumption of billions of pounds of meat from animals treated with it.

By the way, there are problems with your "precautionary principle", too.

Precautionary Tale - Reason.com
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:32 PM
 
4,984 posts, read 5,063,741 times
Reputation: 6322
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
So far, all you have said is because the chemicals are there, they must be harmful.
Yup, it takes a Noble Prize Winner to suspect that tert-Butylhydroquinone, for example, might be something to avoid if possible. Also, it takes enormous brain power to deduct that preservatives in the wonder food may kill not only spoilage causing microorganisms but also bacteria in your gut, and so on.

Quote:
The diseases that you think are more common for the most part have always been here. What is different is improvement in testing that improves diagnostic accuracy and an increase in awareness. People now share their medical problems much more freely than in the past.
A few diseases & disorders mushroomed in the past few decades. It's hard to impossible to separate food, social, environmental, etc. contributions to our health and well being, yet food we eat (and farms that produce it) hardly helps to improve our well-being. People hooked on the most "advanced" diets are generally the most miserable lot. Correlation doesn't establish causation, that's true.

Obesity, autism, auto-imune disorders, allergies, asthma ,disabling depressions, chronic fatigue, cancers, addictions, .... It's only natural to presume that thousands of agri chemicals and food additives don't contribute a tiny bit.

Quote:
Do you really not think that if the harm is there someone unconnected with industry would not find it? Meanwhile, people do not seem to be dying in the streets.

American Institute in Taiwan - 2012-02-21 | The Facts about U.S. Beef and Ractopamine
American Institute in Taiwan must be connected with something to embark on a campaign of enlightenment of the meat starved Taiwanese masses about inevitable drop in prices of the ractopamine fed pigs. You should know that staff members of all sorts of research, educational and non profit institutions wouldn't type a word without securing funding first? It's mostly the Department of State that funds American Institute in Taiwan. Thus "someone unconnected with industry" doesn't apply here.

Besides, since I'm held to such high reference standards in this thread. I would appreciate if Taiwanese educators would elaborate more on There have been extensive scientific studies that reviewed the use of ractopamine as a feed ingredient and considered its impact on human health in terms of toxicity, reproductive abnormalities, carcinogenicity and other factors. They should have elaborated more on the "extensive studies" part. Research they presented as an evidence has little to do with toxicity, reproductive abnormalities, carcinogenicity and other factors.

BTW, Big George, do you really think that Taiwanese ractopamine educators know much more about organic chemistry, food science, biology, medicine, etc. than a "volleyball chick"?

Last edited by RememberMee; 12-17-2012 at 11:49 PM..
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:44 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,417,256 times
Reputation: 7641
Yaknow?

If we had a dime for every time some scientist "suspected" or theorized, or published one of the "studies show" we'd all be rich.....
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,410 posts, read 28,257,722 times
Reputation: 28995
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Yup, it takes a Noble Prize Winner to suspect that tert-Butylhydroquinone, for example, might be something to avoid if possible. Also, it takes enormous brain power to deduct that preservatives in the wonder food may kill not only spoilage causing microorganisms but also bacteria in your gut, and so on.
Why does it need to be avoided? Because it has a funky sounding name?

It's not an antimicrobial, by the way. It's an anti-oxidant.

Quote:
A few diseases & disorders mushroomed in the past few decades. It's hard to impossible to separate food, social, environmental, etc. contributions to our health and well being, yet food we eat (and farms that produces it) hardly helps our well-being. People hooked by conditioning or financial circumstances on the most "advanced" diet are generally the most miserable lot. Correlation doesn't establish causation

Obesity, autism, auto-imune disorders, allergies, asthma ,disabling depressions, chronic fatigue, cancers, addictions, .... It's only natural to presume that thousands of agri chemicals and food additives don't contribute a tiny bit.
I'm not sure what this convoluted statement says except that you think eating anything is unhealthy.

Quote:
American Institute in Taiwan must be connected with something to embark on a campaign of enlightenment of the meat starved Taiwanese masses about inevitable drop in prices of ractopamine fed pigs. You should know that staff members of all sorts of research, educational and non profit institutions wouldn't type a word without securing funding first? It's mostly the Department of State that funds American Institute in Taiwan. Thus "someone unconnected with industry" doesn't apply here.

Besides, since I'm held to such high reference standards in this thread. I would appreciate if Taiwanese educators would elaborate more on There have been extensive scientific studies that reviewed the use of ractopamine as a feed ingredient and considered its impact on human health in terms of toxicity, reproductive abnormalities, carcinogenicity and other factors. They should have elaborated more on the "extensive studies" part. Research they provided as evidence has little to do with toxicity, reproductive abnormalities, carcinogenicity and other factors.
Since the link does not agree with you, it has to be wrong, of course.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:24 PM
 
4,984 posts, read 5,063,741 times
Reputation: 6322
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
It's rather unscientific to start with what "common sense" tells you and then go looking for evidence to support your foregone conclusion. Despite that, you have not found any evidence to support your "common sense," have you?
Can you imagine how those savages could survive for tens of thousands of years using nothing but common sense? As I predicted you declared common sense "unscientific". Eating hundreds of chemicals is scientific and it's good for you.

Quote:
What 30% cancer rates? Cancer rates are decreasing. Would not "common sense" then say that your "agrochemicals" prevent cancer?
Don't be so selective. Some cancer rates are marginally decreasing, the rest are increasing. That's what world health organization has to say on the matter.
Q: Are the number of cancer cases increasing or decreasing in the world?
A: Cancer is a leading cause of death worldwide and the total number of cases globally is increasing.


Quote:
Do you have any evidence that anything in any food causes autism?
Do you have any evidence otherwise? Is the food kids eat a plausible (contributing) factor or linking food and autism is outright blasphemy, fear mongering and obscurantism unworthy of the further study?

Quote:
Hint: autism is most likely largely genetic.
That's one mighty dormant gene.

Quote:
Who died? That's the whole point. You cannot name a single person who has died from the chemicals you are so sure are dangerous.
Apparently, you deem safe everything that doesn't cause cyanide like poisoning.

Quote:
What has agriculture got to do with food coloring? Are you saying no one should have any food or beverage with food coloring in it because someone might be sensitive to it?
It's stupid to consume artificially colored food and drinks, but adults should have freedom to do stupid things. Feeding that stuff to kids is criminal.

Quote:
You are free to buy only food without preservatives if you wish. Grow your own. Make your own bread. Just eat it quickly, or you can watch the mold grow and then throw most of it away. By the way, some bread molds can make you sick. Be prepared to see your food budget grow rapidly and the variety of foods you have available shrink tremendously.
I think you don't do grocery shopping yourself if you seriously suggest "You are free to buy only food without preservatives if you wish.". I do grow some of my food and I do bake bread, I would go seriously crazy without that. I have limited time though, and I just squandered many hours of that potentially productive time on this thread (as well as 1500 of other posts). I think your fears of imminent bread spoilage are greatly exaggerated unless you have stakes in a commercial bakery.

Maybe you could enlighten me. Once in a while I buy this "All-Natural", no preservatives, no corn syrup, no ... bagged sliced breads in grocery stores. Yet, despite the "natural" claim (and no chemicals disclosed) - no mold, no animal, no bird wants to touch that bread, it can last for months unmolested. I do taste chemicals despite the claim to the contrary. What do they do to that bread, or they just lie about the ingridients on the label?

Quote:
The evidence that ractopamine is not harmful to humans lies in the lack of any reports of harm from the consumption of billions of pounds of meat from animals treated with it.
I have heard about reports of harm from the consumption of grass fed and free range meats. Yet, you heard nothing about deleterious effects of the industrial meats. I can see 11 years old girls with well developed breasts and all the woman' machinery working. Do you invite me to believe that consumption of industrial, hormone and chemical rich meats does nothing else to our bodies except accelerating puberty?

I still don't understand how you can claim "No harm" if people die and get sick every day and nobody cares to study effects of the food additives and agri-chemicals on all that death and sickness around us?

Last edited by RememberMee; 12-17-2012 at 11:37 PM..
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:36 PM
 
4,984 posts, read 5,063,741 times
Reputation: 6322
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Why does it need to be avoided? Because it has a funky sounding name?

It's not an antimicrobial, by the way. It's an anti-oxidant.
OK, anti-oxidant, that changes it all. Anti-oxidant is a cutting edge code word in the food marketing, I'll eat whatever, just call it an antioxidant. I believe the rest of 1500+ of additives have hidden health benefits too, just market it properly and unleash the goodness.

Quote:
I'm not sure what this convoluted statement says except that you think eating anything is unhealthy.
This convoluted statement says that certain types of debilitating illnesses mushroomed in the past few decades, the decades that saw the rise of the corporate agriculture and food processing.

Quote:
Since the link does not agree with you, it has to be wrong, of course.
No, I didn't say it's wrong. I said that it doesn't have proper references to support the claims. Maybe they just forgot about the references in a rush to educate masses.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,655 posts, read 5,700,735 times
Reputation: 7280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George View Post
Look... You're citing the rants of a 24-year old volleyball playing chick, who writes provocative blogs, as a credible source. Do you REALLY think that intelligent people are going to buy that? Seriously?
Intelligent people leave room for debate. You don't. You've bought in hook, line and sinker. Congratulations.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:32 AM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,417,256 times
Reputation: 7641
I've seen some elitist posts in threads here but the the ones in this particular thread take elitism to a new level....

~ Scoffing at people because they don't see anything wrong with chemical additives to food (yet cannot provide any proof that chemical additives are bad for one's health)...

~ Deriding people because their claims "don't have the proper proof to support their claims" yet use athletes as credible sources for their arguments...

~ Using innuendos that because a disease is not fully understood it must be caused by the chemical additives...

~ Telling people they are stupid for consuming colored food and drinks...

~ Using statements such as this "Yet, despite the "natural" claim (and no chemicals disclosed) - no mold, no animal, no bird wants to touch that bread, it can last for months unmolested." Not stopping to think it could be something that their body is secreting that gets on the bread that turns animals away from it, nope, it's gotta be the hidden chemicals added by THEM

~ Using the infamous argument "Do you invite me to believe that consumption of industrial, hormone and chemical rich meats does nothing else to our bodies except accelerating puberty?" Alluding to the secret government conspiracy to poison it's citizens...

~ Coming out with great conspiracy statements and alluding to the fact their bodies are so superior to us normal human beings they can taste chemicals in their food when none exist....

~ Statements such as "People get sick and die every day and nobody cares to study effects of the food additives and agri-chemicals on all that death and sickness around us?"

The government could not accomplish anything if they had to investigate every crackpot allegation made by every one of the fringe conspiracy groups in America.....
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:50 AM
 
2,737 posts, read 4,342,746 times
Reputation: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by sskink View Post
Intelligent people leave room for debate. You don't. You've bought in hook, line and sinker. Congratulations.
You're nowhere near that smart, so don't even go there. Your fellow Organic Industry Mouthpiece got caught citing a blog written by a college chick, claiming it was authoritative.

That has to be kind of embarrassing.
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