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Old 07-11-2013, 01:56 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,376,698 times
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Talk about hilarious, just take the word of certified organic farmers that their produce is healthy, no need of testing or actual certification......

Organic Hepatitis A Outbreak

Quote:
Three weeks ago, a recall was announced for certified-organic berries sold at Costco. According to the Centers for Disease Control, at least 118 people in 8 states have now contracted hepatitis A infection linked to Townsend Farms frozen berries bought at the box store retailer.

Rather than test organic crops in the field for lethal pathogens resulting from improperly composted manure, authorities in the United States and Canada say they will continue to rely on paperwork to prove the safety of these niche products.
Organic Hepatitis A Outbreak | Food Safety News
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:10 PM
 
568 posts, read 821,906 times
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At least we still have a choice...
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 8,612,174 times
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Red herring.

In all honesty, the quote should really read:

"Rather than test crops for lethal pathogens, authorities continue to rely on paperwork to prove the safety of these products."

I don't think this is an organic vs. conventional argument; it's a question of food safety protocols within the system. This outbreak occured in an organic product, but similar outbreaks can and have occured in conventional products. Organic certification doesn't have anything to do with microbial controls, it's purpose is to reduce the amount of toxins commonly used in conventional agriculture.
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:52 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,376,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
Red herring.

In all honesty, the quote should really read:

"Rather than test crops for lethal pathogens, authorities continue to rely on paperwork to prove the safety of these products."

I don't think this is an organic vs. conventional argument; it's a question of food safety protocols within the system. This outbreak occured in an organic product, but similar outbreaks can and have occured in conventional products. Organic certification doesn't have anything to do with microbial controls, it's purpose is to reduce the amount of toxins commonly used in conventional agriculture.
How many people automatically assume that certified organic = trusted and healthy? ~ Too many....

Is this finding a red herring just because it's an article calling out the dark side of certified organic products?

You are 100% correct that this could have occurred with any food.

Anyone who sells produce, just like the larger corporations should be forced to have their yields tested and certified, not be trusted by the producers signing a paper stating that their crops are healthy and safe to eat.
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Old 07-11-2013, 09:36 PM
 
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The only 'dark side' or organic food is when big chain stores jumping on the organic bandwagon buy organic food that was passed by the government's 'standards' of what organic is. Those standards do not meet my organic standards and I hope they don't meet yours either. Most people have no idea of where their food came from (hundreds of miles away), depend on someone else to get it for them (big business and government), and think the organic label can be trusted. Real organic food is grown by small farms who do not rape the land and isn't produced in large amounts enough to stock a Costco store.

Quit trusting these large corporations, buy local and grow your own food if you want REAL FOOD. Otherwise, take the chance of any food being exposed to disease or whatever else. The Life Support System (as I like to refer to it), comes with a price. But most people choose it, so that they don't have to plant something in the dirt and water it once in awhile.
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Old 07-11-2013, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
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I agree that many people see "organic" and automatically assume it's 100% safe... just like many people see "pasteurized" and automatically assume it's 100% safe. Unfortunately, no food can be guaranteed 100% safe every batch, year after year, whether you grow/process it yourself or you purchase Uber-AgriCorp brand at MegaMart. The multi-stage processing & distribution chain in our current food system just introduces many more points of possible contamination, both before and after processing. The best we can hope for is "reasonably safe", because no food commodity is routinely tested before being marketed -- at best only periodic samples are tested, at worst only when an outbreak has occured.

During the investigation of Costco Townsend Farm frozen berry blend, the CDC traced the outbreak to the pomegranate seeds from Turkey. As yet, how the seeds became infected has not been determined - although since pomegranates grow on tall shrubs and HepA is not spread by animal feces but infected persons, it's highly doubtful that "improperly composted manure" was a factor and is more likely a case of poor sanitation & hygiene in the processing facility.
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Old 07-11-2013, 10:50 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,376,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjay View Post
The only 'dark side' or organic food is when big chain stores jumping on the organic bandwagon buy organic food that was passed by the government's 'standards' of what organic is. Those standards do not meet my organic standards and I hope they don't meet yours either. Most people have no idea of where their food came from (hundreds of miles away), depend on someone else to get it for them (big business and government), and think the organic label can be trusted. Real organic food is grown by small farms who do not rape the land and isn't produced in large amounts enough to stock a Costco store.

Quit trusting these large corporations, buy local and grow your own food if you want REAL FOOD. Otherwise, take the chance of any food being exposed to disease or whatever else. The Life Support System (as I like to refer to it), comes with a price. But most people choose it, so that they don't have to plant something in the dirt and water it once in awhile.
Buying local doesn't guarantee the food will not be infected by some disease or be 100% safe to eat...

Anyone who believes that is foolish...
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:13 AM
 
Location: DC
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Is a topic on organic food appropriate in a green living message board? What's "green" about organic?
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 8,612,174 times
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Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Is a topic on organic food appropriate in a green living message board? What's "green" about organic?
Unfortunately, we don't have an agricultural subforum, so many discussions about organic, conventional, GMO get shunted into Green Living by default.

I think organic is considered "green" because it uses less synthetic compounds, and is generally believed to be more sustainable. Since everyone has a slightly different idea about what constitutes "green" it's a vague subforum at times.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:51 AM
 
5,896 posts, read 6,669,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post

I think organic is considered "green" because it uses less synthetic compounds, and is generally believed to be more sustainable. Since everyone has a slightly different idea about what constitutes "green" it's a vague subforum at times.

Isn't that sort of what many 'average' folks think when they see 'organic' on the sign in the grocery store?

Do people really believe that the organic food which is sold in the millions of pounds has suddenly morphed from being 'pesticide/fertilizer/lord knows what laced' to being completely 'organic'? I find that hard to believe.

But the suppliers have figured it out...that they can put an organic label on anything, however spurious, and jack up the price a good bit, and folks will flock to it because it is 'green/organic'. It is inherently healthier, and good for them. And they are willing to pay up.

In nearly any activity in the modern world you need to follow the money to see what is really going on. It's a LOT less costly for me to spend a few million dollars lobbying the FDA to get them to 'believe' my paperwork, than it is to have the FDA come and inspect my production processes. Especially when I am pretending to be 'organic'.
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