U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-06-2013, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,421 posts, read 37,822,098 times
Reputation: 22576

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Sometimes the law is just wrong and deserves zero respect.
And when you have that opinion about a law, you work to get it passed. You don't just decide that YOU are the one who gets to decide by fiat which laws are to be obeyed and which aren't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-06-2013, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 6,341,332 times
Reputation: 1561
I'm just saying go in expecting to lose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 04:33 AM
 
Location: The Woods
16,958 posts, read 22,274,224 times
Reputation: 9066
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
And when you have that opinion about a law, you work to get it passed. You don't just decide that YOU are the one who gets to decide by fiat which laws are to be obeyed and which aren't.
"Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves." -Thoreau

I will decide what is rigt and wrong for myself, governments have been the source of nothing but slaughter of innocent lives while enslaving the rest.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,425 posts, read 28,280,822 times
Reputation: 29014
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
"Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves." -Thoreau

I will decide what is rigt and wrong for myself, governments have been the source of nothing but slaughter of innocent lives while enslaving the rest.
So that means you may drive the wrong way on an interstate highway and ignore traffic signals if you wish?

The argument you make ignores the fact that laws in democratic countries are made by the people who live under them - including yourself if you vote.

The family that built that house chose to beg forgiveness rather than ask permission. I am sure they were aware that forgiveness might not be granted. If so, they gambled and lost.

The appropriate route would be to change the rules in order to get the necessary permit. Then build your house. If everyone can build what he wants where he wants to, what is to prevent people from erecting cardboard shacks?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
17,885 posts, read 54,194,416 times
Reputation: 30384
^^^ This.

Does the place look nice? Yes. Does that give it a free pass? NO.
How about if instead of a house they erected a chicken broiler house? To have any semblance of fairness, laws have to be applied equally. The stupidity of the builder is not the responsibility of the government. We wanted to be able to do what we wanted with our property and sought out an area where building codes are not enforced. See how easy it is?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 12:02 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,958 posts, read 22,274,224 times
Reputation: 9066
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
So that means you may drive the wrong way on an interstate highway and ignore traffic signals if you wish?

The argument you make ignores the fact that laws in democratic countries are made by the people who live under them - including yourself if you vote.

The family that built that house chose to beg forgiveness rather than ask permission. I am sure they were aware that forgiveness might not be granted. If so, they gambled and lost.

The appropriate route would be to change the rules in order to get the necessary permit. Then build your house. If everyone can build what he wants where he wants to, what is to prevent people from erecting cardboard shacks?
There's a major difference between driving against traffic on an interstate, putting lives at risk, and building one's own home without a silly permission slip.

If someone wants to live in a cardboard shack, what business is it of yours? Everyone would be a lot healthier, and the environment would be better off, if we did away with this worrying over making sure everyone buys into materialistic notions of what a home must be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 12:16 PM
 
1,176 posts, read 2,045,811 times
Reputation: 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Sometimes the law is just wrong and deserves zero respect.
I agree, however, willfully disregarding the law, just or not, is at your own peril.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 01:09 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
22,701 posts, read 28,744,369 times
Reputation: 43787
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Sometimes the law is just wrong and deserves zero respect.
Civil disobedience is all well and fine, but there are consequences.

Nobody gets to practice civil disobedience and then gets to claim a free pass.

Disobey the law if you want to. Don't be surprised if society doesn't want to agree with your particular feelings about what constitutes morality. So be prepared to accept the consequences as part of the process of making your point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,605 posts, read 9,284,933 times
Reputation: 5448
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
There's a major difference between driving against traffic on an interstate, putting lives at risk, and building one's own home without a silly permission slip.

If someone wants to live in a cardboard shack, what business is it of yours? Everyone would be a lot healthier, and the environment would be better off, if we did away with this worrying over making sure everyone buys into materialistic notions of what a home must be.
That too can be argued. Without the required permits and associated inspections, how does one demonstrate that the building is sound and safely constructed? Perhaps the builder was a bit too tipsy when he installed the load bearing supports and everyone invited to the tea party celebrating the birth of the latest batch of ferrets are killed when the roof collapses. Without those nasty permits he could lose his life savings and perhaps be convicted of manslaughter because he had no proof that his construction was verified proper at the time of inspection.

Unsafe building practices are a serious concern, just ask any Indoneasian seamstress and she will back me up, and cause death and injury all the time.

Not to mention the non-life threatening, but truly silly possibility of building ones own house in the wrong place as happened to one of my friends. He drove out to cut the grass on his vacant lot and found a house had been built on it instead of the lot next door. OOPS! Inspector should have caught that, but wait, no permit so no inspector. All worked out, he swapped lots rather than keep the house (as he legally could have) and have a vengeful neighbor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2013, 03:41 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,958 posts, read 22,274,224 times
Reputation: 9066
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
That too can be argued. Without the required permits and associated inspections, how does one demonstrate that the building is sound and safely constructed? Perhaps the builder was a bit too tipsy when he installed the load bearing supports and everyone invited to the tea party celebrating the birth of the latest batch of ferrets are killed when the roof collapses. Without those nasty permits he could lose his life savings and perhaps be convicted of manslaughter because he had no proof that his construction was verified proper at the time of inspection.

Unsafe building practices are a serious concern, just ask any Indoneasian seamstress and she will back me up, and cause death and injury all the time.

Not to mention the non-life threatening, but truly silly possibility of building ones own house in the wrong place as happened to one of my friends. He drove out to cut the grass on his vacant lot and found a house had been built on it instead of the lot next door. OOPS! Inspector should have caught that, but wait, no permit so no inspector. All worked out, he swapped lots rather than keep the house (as he legally could have) and have a vengeful neighbor.
Permits where I live have zero inspections on the actual structure. Strictly revenue devices. In some cases snob devices by wealthy people to keep the less wealthy away. When a person is building their own home, it's their responsibility it's safe. It's not the government's or anyone else's job to protect me from myself. I'm surrounded by houses built over a century ago, some over 2 centuries ago during frontier times here, that were built with zero codes, inspections, etc., in place. They're still standing while many code-compliant homes have crumbled away in less than the 30 years they were mortgaged. The average lifespan of a new construction house has been dropping steadily throughout the last century as codes have been enacted. What's that say about codes?

Building inspectors where they exist generally have nothing to do with inspecting the location on the lot. It requires a land surveyor to do so. There's no need for permits to address what happened to your friend. The builder was responsible for removing the structure and compensation for property damage to the land.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top