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No. There are a number of posts that are fairly obviously by people who have drunk the corporate and extremist kool-aid that certain actions are "green" and good, and others are evil. There used to be some quality and integrity when environmentalists were fighting the major battles, like getting lead out of gasoline, stopping the dumping of PCBs, and other horrendous practices. I applaud those efforts.
What has happened more recently is that environmentalism has turned in part into a flaky religion, where science and logic are lost to the idea of saving anything cute and furry and claiming that humans have no place on the planet. Such is common in second or third generation movements of any kind. Certain values get lifted to Godhead status and competition to that is quashed.
To use your own metaphor, you are asking for the removal of posts of those who do not think we are going to hell in accordance with the dictates of the "green" religion.
No, I'm asking for people who want to insult and bash environmentalists to perhaps take their bullying elsewhere. What kind of loser do you have to be to actively seek out people who disagree with you and insult them? And why should those who are being bullied have to put up with it in a space that's designed for them to have intellectual conversations with each other.
You are far too impressionable and willing to listen to spoiled children with a guilt complex, whose only motivation is resentment against people who live better than they do (usually through their own efforts), and whose principal goal is to hamper us all by building a bigger bureaucracy.
Pick up the trash known as environmentalism, and flush it down the nearest toilet.
It's only a joke to you because you didn't like the response; stop whining and recognize that most of us see your "passion" for what it is, and recognize your zeal as a desire to force your supposed "enlightenment" on everybody else, and to silence those who disagree; in other words, F-a-s-c-i-s-m.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 09-13-2013 at 04:27 PM..
It's only a joke to you because you didn't like the response; stop whining and recognize that most of us see your "passion" for what it is, and recognize your zeal as a desire to force your supposed "enlightenment" on everybody else, and to silence those who disagree; in other words, F-a-s-c-i-s-m.
Ok, let me try to put this a way you can understand, since you've been brainwashed to jump to the "F" word whenever someone disagrees with you.
Let's say that I enjoy making jewelery, and I'd like to talk to other people who also like to make jewelery. That is, we share a common interest (jewelery making) and we'd like to talk about design, strategies, etc. So we set up a jewelery making forum on the internet. However, while we're quietly discussing techniques, all these crazy teenagers come in and say "JEWELERY MAKING SUCKS!!!" or "You're wasting your life making jewelery!!!" Now there's a hostile environment. Instead of being able to discuss jewelery making or jewelery making techniques, we have to deal with attacks from Anti-Jewelery people.
If you'd like to discuss the course of the environmental movement, the politics surrounding climate change, or any other controversial topic, there's the Politics and Other Controversies forum. There, you will find many like minded individuals who also like to toss around the word "fascist" or "socialist" or "omg NAZIS" whenever they don't like what's being said, without actually understanding what those terms mean.
This is a GREEN LIVING forum, designed for people to discuss GREEN LIVING. Pretend Green Living is our hobby. We don't really want to discuss the validity of our hobby (again, there are many other outlets for doing just that). We just want to discuss it in peace, without people calling us names, attacking us, etc.
So that's why this forum is a joke. It's a joke because instead of fostering a supporting environment for people to discuss Green Living, it fosters an incredible hostile environment where people from other forums come in to attack us, contributing nothing to the actual conversation at hand. And while its easy to ignore the occasional attack, eventually it gets annoying and incredibly distracting.
It's a little crazy that I even have explain this. It's like calling out someone for calling me fat and them saying "OMG you're a FASCIST for trying to suppress my First Amendment rights!!" Well no, fine, call me fat. You can say whatever you want. But don't for one second believe that your attacks are contributing in any real way to the conversation.
No, I'm asking for people who want to insult and bash environmentalists to perhaps take their bullying elsewhere. What kind of loser do you have to be to actively seek out people who disagree with you and insult them? And why should those who are being bullied have to put up with it in a space that's designed for them to have intellectual conversations with each other.
Obviously, there are all types of people. I would suggest that a lot of the "insults" come from the imposition of laws, zoning codes, and other regulations at the behest of the green lobby. These often impinge upon landowner rights, are enforced without common sense, and have created a LOT of pent-up anger in those affected.
You may be aware that people in the fine state of Colorado were prohibited from harvesting the rain water that fell on their roofs for personal use. It made no difference that it was a "green" activity, the "greater good" (read - water authorities selling water) made it illegal. I doubt you will find many that oppose a change to that. In such cases, green and property rights go hand-in-hand. There are many other situations where "green" goes counter to other values, and values clarification has to occur.
Debate only occurs when there are different viewpoints. Debate is the time-honored method by which most social reform is hammered out, including debate in the old Athens forum, on legislative floors, in Vermont town meetings, in the courts. Would you suggest that those who seek out debate are all "losers?"
There are plenty of places that are playpens, places sponsored by activists who do not want dissension, by corporations in search of sycophants, and by the narcissistic who desire to lauded with rose petals and perfumes. Open forums are not those places.
Perhaps you think my "outting" NBC News for flagrant fear-mongering and lies about the rise of ocean levels is the rant of a "loser" insulting NBC? In point of fact it was an intellectual challenge, backed with hard data and hard math, bringing to task just a few of the blatant fantasies that pass for "intellectual" among many followers of the green movement.
It can be rough when reality storms through your dreams, when your "eco-friendly" house in the Rockies burns in wildfires because it wasn't considered "green" to allow forest fires to exist. It can be startling when a local area completely changes character. The gorgeous pastureland with forested hill backdrops in Vermont continue to revert to ugly scrub forests of trash trees because "cattle farts harm the atmosphere" and cattle poop might get in the waterways. "Green" can be fully as destructive to beloved environments as unchecked industrial excess.
I'm reminded of an amusing story from the town where I grew up in Vermont. A new road was replacing one of the old ones, going a slightly different route. A suggestion was made to name the road in honor of a long time resident on the road, who was charitable and a village icon. The flatlanders who had built in the town within the past couple of decades were outraged, saying that "The old road had always been named for Thatcher Brook, and it would be wrong to give it a new name." Of course, Thatcher Brook had been named for the Thatcher family, and the brook was previously known as the north brook, and before that, some native American name.
The glorification of a current ecological state is similar, in that it denies that global warming melted the glaciers that covered Vermont in thousands of feet of ice for centuries. Much of the "green" movement is an attempt to ossify the world in what it considers the current "pristine" state, and prevent it from experiencing the natural changes of time.
If you wander over to the frugal forum, you'll find a "green" conversation I had with a woman determined to pay extra to save trees, through minimizing her use of paper and buying cloth bags. Her goal appeared to be to leave the world a better place. She was stunned and disbelieving when I suggested that we grow trees around here as a crop, just like canola or cotton or corn, and that her money would have a far greater "green" effect if it was donated to groups attempting to save the rare trees in places like Madagascar. She did not want the "intellectual" discussion. She wanted to feel good by not using paper bags. On a personal level, if she wants to do so, great. Just don't attempt to elevate such thinking to an "intellectual discussion" of the importance of not using paper bags in a "green" society.
Thank you for describing the Preservation Movement. Breaking News: John Muir is Dead. The environmental movement has moved on.
Yep! ...... and you'll stomp on anyone who gets in your way.
A relative of mine who was a great influence when I was a kid. He taught school and had a beautiful collection of the first stamps issued by the old National Wildlife Association back in the Forties. In those days, environmental concern was called the "conservation" movement --- "conservative" being a dirty word to the likes of you.
BTW ... the first time I heard the word "ecology" was in the sci-fi writings of the late Robert Heinlien, another man who understood that clean living and individual rights, including property rights, are not mutually exclusive,
You are simply another of Al Gore's dupes .... willing to swallow any statist dogma in the belief that it will bring more power to you and your green thug allies, and that an economy you helped to destroy can still pay for it all.
Yep! ...... and you'll stomp on anyone who gets in your way.
A relative of mine who was a great influence when I was a kid. He taught school and had a beautiful collection of the first stamps issued by the old National Wildlife Association back in the Forties. In those days, environmental concern was called the "conservation" movement --- "conservative" being a dirty word to the likes of you.
BTW ... the first time I heard the word "ecology" was in the sci-fi writings of the late Robert Heinlien, another man who understood that clean living and individual rights, including property rights, are not mutually exclusive,
You are simply another of Al Gore's dupes .... willing to swallow any statist dogma in the belief that it will bring more power to you and your green thug allies, and that an economy you helped to destroy can still pay for it all.
I find it strange that you're such an expert on my opinions and values. Do you know me in person?
Thank you for describing the Preservation Movement. Breaking News: John Muir is Dead. The environmental movement has moved on.
witty. Breaking wind:
If an environmentalist has a movement in the woods, he bags it and takes it home with him. Now if we could just potty train the same group to not smear their "movements" in the law books...
If an environmentalist has a movement in the woods, he bags it and takes it home with him. Now if we could just potty train the same group to not smear their "movements" in the law books...
Ok, you don't like environmentalism. Thank you for sharing your opinion with us.
Look, I don't like NASCAR racing. It's noisy, it's dirty, it takes up air time on tv. It's a waste of people's time, fossil fuels, and a lot of money. However, I don't go to the car racing forum to tell everyone there what a waste of time car racing is.
Why not? Well, it could be for multiple reasons:
1. They don't care.
2. It's not going to be relevant to their discussions on racing in any way, and will in fact hinder communication.
3. Telling people that their opinions/hobbies are dumb is rude
4. It's really easy to come across as a douchebag when you go onto forums that you don't actually have any interest in.
Pretend that all 4 of those reasons apply to yourself.
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