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Old 10-08-2013, 07:35 AM
 
128 posts, read 129,664 times
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Alternate energy. Sounds great. How green is this alternate energy though? Everyone is trying to build solar panels and rail cars but no one knows for sure whether our society could thrive with this technology. What is clear is not new theories of technology but old ways that have already been established. Walking, horses, old fashioned ways of living. Our ancestors did it for years and no problem. Us? We messed it all up. Instead of trying to find new ways out, why cant we just go back to the old ones?

Is technology the answer, green, orange, red, blue, whatever color you want to name it, is any new technology really the answer for old technology problems, or is de-teching (detaching), and reversion the real answer here. Not more products, but less. I guess no one is going to promote less because then there will be nothing to sell huh?
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:37 AM
 
Location: DC
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Because the "Good Ole Days" weren't really that good.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:41 AM
 
128 posts, read 129,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Because the "Good Ole Days" weren't really that good.
Laughs....And today is better?

Last I checked, we have a longer life expectancy, but a shorter quality of living. In other words we are living longer, but less healthy. Take America for instance. Richest country in the world, with some of the most unhealthiest population. Health care system kills millions a year. Obesity and disease does the rest. Death rates are higher now more than ever. Crime and loss is at record highs. Please tell me what is so much better today than yesterday.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,652,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tariqblaze View Post
Laughs....And today is better?

Last I checked, we have a longer life expectancy, but a shorter quality of living. In other words we are living longer, but less healthy. Take America for instance. Richest country in the world, with some of the most unhealthiest population. Health care system kills millions a year. Obesity and disease does the rest. Death rates are higher now more than ever. Crime and loss is at record highs. Please tell me what is so much better today than yesterday.
Lots of unsupported rhetoric in that short paragraph. How can we have a longer life expectancy and higher death rates? Answer: we can't. Crime and loss is at record highs? Answer: no, it's been dropping steadily. Health care system kills millions? Answer: No, but lack of healthcare does.

The only way I can see to make a valid statement out of that paragraph is to add these words at the beginning: It seems like...

The real problem is your perception. The old days were not that great.

To take just one example that comes to mind, when horses were the main means of transportation, horse manure and flies were everywhere, and with them came the stink and the mess and a lot of disease. And two common causes of death were being thrown from a horse and being kicked by a horse. It was just accepted back then, because life was often short and brutal. Large families were the norm, because so many kids died in childhood.

Or let's look at wood fires, which were ubiquitous for millennia, and are still the norm in many parts of the world, if not for heating, then for cooking. The problem is that wood smoke is highly toxic, and indoor air pollution caused by such cooking fires is responsible for about 2 million deaths a year, according to the World Health Organization. 50% of the pneumonia deaths among children are directly attributable to smoke from indoor fires.

Green energy, meaning energy that is derived in a sustainable, ecologically sound way, helps solve large scale problems without creating bigger new ones. Nuclear energy seemed like an answer to diminishing fossil fuel reserves, but it created vast new problems and waste and pollution issues of its own. Solar energy, by contrast, is abundant, renewable and inexhaustible. We just need to learn to harness it and use it well, along with other renewable sources that are ultimately driven by the power of the sun, such as wind and water power.

And one element of greening the planet is simplifying life, and reducing high consumption and materialism in first world cultures. The less one owns and uses, the less that has to be manufactured, and the less energy that person consumes, directly and indirectly. Simplifying life today isn't about going back to manure filled streets as much as it is about changing attitudes.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:53 AM
 
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Society is just like an organism, you can't decimate amount of food you eat and feel good (or stay alive), it's virtually impossible to decimate energy use without some major social & humanitarian repercussions of the most dire kind. We are trapped, we must run the civilization & technology treadmill faster and faster or billions of us must drop dead. It's just too bad that running the treadmill faster and faster doesn't offer any long term survival assurances either. With the technology, we let the genie out of the bottle, there is no way back. So let's just believe that human ingenuity can overcome any resource or ecological constraint and we can successfully turn the Earth in a man controlled space ship manned by the scientifically raised and controlled workers.

As for social evolution, I believe it's gonna be quite Huxlean,


Within the next generation I believe that the world's rulers will discover that infant conditioning and narco-hypnosis are more efficient, as instruments of government, than clubs and prisons, and that the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging and kicking them into obedience.


That's the nature of technology, it give more and more power to the ruling oligarchies (otherwise, what's the point to fund all that research?). Sooner or later there will be the ways to control the masses on the cellular level, and breed workers to exact specifications. Sure, past wasn't sugar, but the future where the thirst for power and control is assisted by science will not be sugar coated, mildly speaking.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:03 AM
 
4,994 posts, read 5,074,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tariqblaze View Post
Laughs....And today is better?

Last I checked, we have a longer life expectancy, but a shorter quality of living. In other words we are living longer, but less healthy. Take America for instance. Richest country in the world, with some of the most unhealthiest population. Health care system kills millions a year. Obesity and disease does the rest. Death rates are higher now more than ever. Crime and loss is at record highs. Please tell me what is so much better today than yesterday.
You can be quite unhealthy from malnutrition, overwork, lack of medical care of the most primitive kind, material deprivations breed crime. I guess in this post you are referring to the lower working classes in America, that indeed suffer from the things you described. But most of that is self-inflicted. USA is a status centered society of competing individuals, lower class folks simply have not status/wealth to validate their existence within this particular society, they have no community to belong to unconditionally, they have little wealth, they have little to live for... thus they essentially self-destruct. Everybody else is running the treadmill, derives meaning and self-worth from the run, and living reasonably healthy and long lives.

Last edited by RememberMee; 10-08-2013 at 09:14 AM..
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:30 AM
 
128 posts, read 129,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
Lots of unsupported rhetoric in that short paragraph. How can we have a longer life expectancy and higher death rates? .
Americans are living longer lives, but we are living out these longer lives with chronic illnesses in large part due to our lifestyle choices, including eating unhealthy diets, failing to exercise, smoking, and using alcohol and drugs, according to research led by researchers at the University of Washington.
In the analysis, the researchers looked the causes of death and disability in 187 countries around the world. The study was led by the University of Washington’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) and funded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

Americans living longer, but enjoying less healthy lives | Seattle/LocalHealthGuide


Care to explain this?

And prescription drug death rates?
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:21 PM
 
225 posts, read 337,415 times
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Are you asking about green energy, or losing technology?

Green energy - the only thing that shows any promise is solar panels and nuclear power. Everything else gives energy that is too sporadic or has too many bad side-effects.

Losing technology - isn't an option. There's no chance that everyone would give up their electronics. And even if they did, that would just leave the country succeptible to being invaded. And then they'll use their electronics.
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:58 PM
 
128 posts, read 129,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sminthian View Post
Are you asking about green energy, or losing technology?

Green energy - the only thing that shows any promise is solar panels and nuclear power. Everything else gives energy that is too sporadic or has too many bad side-effects.

Losing technology - isn't an option. There's no chance that everyone would give up their electronics. And even if they did, that would just leave the country succeptible to being invaded. And then they'll use their electronics.
I have heard pretty bad side effects to solar panels as well.

The Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition estimates 1.5 billion pounds of solar panel waste will be disposed of in California alone. Nuclear power...The horror stories doesnt end.

Losing technology? Everyone doesnt have to give up their property. We can still keep our tech on reserve just in case. But for everyday use. The question im asking is what about those that choose to do so. Those that choose to walk over a car. Write over type. Sail over fly. Instead of offering these people new tech as alternatives to unhealthy tech, why offer them anything. Nothing. Going back to nothing would be better for these people would it not?

Last edited by tariqblaze; 10-08-2013 at 01:50 PM..
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,623 posts, read 6,264,338 times
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Green is an invented ideology that leads to a form of control. That is the end game for those who control the political systems of the world.
They will control every aspect of our lives in the not so far future and we have seen but a glimpse of it to date.
If you don't believe so ask why we have no choice in the type of gasoline we can put into our cars. Why is government mandated healthcare being forced upon us? There are lots of examples out there you see in your everyday lives...think about them.
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