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Old 11-15-2013, 06:46 PM
 
2,305 posts, read 2,407,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
The article says ban, and I do think that's where this is heading, but for now they will pressure and offer cities incentives - they want us all on the grid - it's about control. In my opinion, this has nothing to do with health or particulates.

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/1...urning-stoves/

The great bureaucracy is that no matter how many rules they make, people try to do the best that can for themselves. Put taxes on heating oil in the name of energy savings, people start using wood stoves so they don't have to buy artificially expensive heating oil. So the govt trots out safety arguments against wood stoves. At no point does bureaucrat choose to revisit the taxes that have foisted on the public. They would rather control more. Easy to write rules and regulations and penalize the public.

EPA is a prime example of an agency that needs to be defunded.
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,888,561 times
Reputation: 8318
The liberal faction - anyone agreeing with any governmental agencies - posting here is nauseating.
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Old 11-15-2013, 07:55 PM
 
Location: East Side Milwaukee
711 posts, read 1,688,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Only in terms of new construction.





I agree.



Wood stoves are not the best choice in an urban environment. But few urban cities allow wood stoves anyway.

Burning wood releases the same CO2 that rotting wood releases.

'Dry' wood / 'green' wood the difference is moisture content. The difference in the exhaust gases is steam, not smoke. 'Green' wood burns just fine, it has a bit higher leave of steam [moisture] in it. Nobody is being fined for steam.

Burning green wood is dirtier than burning dry. The temps don't get as high with green wood, too many btu s are used up boiling off the water, leading to incomplete combustion.

In that case, you don't just end up with CO2, heat & steam... If your smoke isn't nearly clear, your burning dirty and inefficiently. May as well leave a window open... Waste of btu s.
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Old 11-15-2013, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,443 posts, read 61,352,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse276 View Post
Burning green wood is dirtier than burning dry. The temps don't get as high with green wood, too many btu s are used up boiling off the water, leading to incomplete combustion.

In that case, you don't just end up with CO2, heat & steam... If your smoke isn't nearly clear, your burning dirty and inefficiently. May as well leave a window open... Waste of btu s.
The non-clear component is the steam.

Complete combustion from green wood gives you light white smoke.

Incomplete combustion produces soot, which is not from moisture content. But from lack of oxygen in the combustion chambers.

Green wood works fine in stoves with primary and secondary combustion chambers. It does get hot enough.

So long as all combustible volatiles burn, it is complete combustion. Any lack of efficiency would be due to design inefficiencies allowing heat to leave the home.
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Old 11-15-2013, 08:46 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
The huge wildfires are not the result of "new policy". They are there result of lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit from the "environmentalists", which prevent the proper care of the forests.
The issue is we have successfully fought forest fires for a century and these forests have a centuries worth of fuel on the ground, it's not natural. When a fire occurs it can be devastating. You have two choices, you can either log in an environmentally friendly manner or let nature take it's course with frequent but less damaging fires. Either way it's going to be consumed.
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Old 11-15-2013, 08:54 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post

But the rules, unfortunately, have to always be set to deal with the lowest common denominator. .

No they don't, local communities are very capable of setting these regulations themselves based on the needs of that community.



Yep, and on the level it matters to them, they do that, primarily in the domain of behavioral standards.

Quote:
Besides, stove manufacturers are not well equipped to deal with a jillion different local standards, so they depend on a coherent single standard being set that local authorities will find acceptable.
There is coal boiler manufacturer I know of that sells two identical units, one cost $2K more. The only difference is an ASME stamp. The manufactures will adjust to what is in demand.
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Old 11-15-2013, 08:59 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I agree.
Send me a PM of where you live in Maine and I'll give you contact information for someone that uses anthracite coal. Then see if you agree. FYI. it's perfectly suitable for any urban environment.

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Old 11-15-2013, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,422,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
The new regs essentially force out non-cat stoves. Those converters, which need replacement, are not exactly environmentally friendly when you consider the sourcing of the materials needed.
The EPA website says otherwise. In fact, I think it makes a pretty clear distinction between the two types, both of which can be certified:

Quote:
The two general approaches to meeting the EPA smoke emission limits are non-catalytic and catalytic combustion. Both approaches have proved effective, but there are performance differences. Although most of the stoves on the market are non-catalytic, some of the more popular high-end stoves use catalytic combustion. Because they are slightly more complicated to operate, catalytic stoves are suited to people who like technology and are prepared to maintain the stove properly so it continues to operate at peak performance.

Choosing the Right Wood Stove | Burn Wise | US EPA
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 11,559,730 times
Reputation: 4262
One of the easiest ways for the government to force this issue is through homeowner’s insurance policies. If you have a mortgage, you have absolutely no option but to carry homeowner’s insurance. Even if you own you homestead outright, most people consider insuring their homes and property to be a vital safety net.
When your policy comes up for annual renewal, the insurance company can require an inspection of your home. At that time, compliance can easily be forced by either charging insanely high rates or through the cancellation of the policies of those who have “outdated” wood stoves.

An Attack on Self-Sufficient Living

Most Wood Burning Stoves Will Soon Be Illegal... EPA | KnowTheLies.com - The Truth is Hidden in Plain View...
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,422,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
One of the easiest ways for the government to force this issue...
Sorry, that's nothing but a scare-mongering political opinion piece from a radical website, just pure biased speculation with no evidence to support it, and as such it belongs in "Politics and Other Controversies," not here.

It's also factually impaired, with several obvious flaws.

Many homeowner insurance policies already require some level of certification for any word burning appliances on the property, such as a rating from Underwriters Laboratories or other testing organization, but that relates to fire safety, since wood stoves and fireplaces are the leading causes of home fires related to heating sources.

Quote:
Loretta Worters, spokeswoman for the nonprofit Insurance Information Institute, says: "...the resurgence of the wood-burning stove as a source of home heat has led to a growing number of fires that can be traced to careless installation or misuse of a stove.

From an insurance standpoint, fire is always the primary concern," Worters says.

Wood-burning stoves stoke home insurance concerns
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