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Old 11-19-2013, 07:39 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,409,634 times
Reputation: 7641

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Seems the electric car isn't living up to peoples expectations....

What's behind this explosion of fuel cell vehicles?

Quote:
What's behind all the activity? The cynical view is that the auto industry is simply scrambling to meet California's strict air regulations: By 2025 more than 22% of new sales for the major automakers must be zero-emission or plug-in hybrids. "With electric car sales not living up to expectations, the carmakers are looking for a hedge to meet the standards in California, and hydrogen provides that," says Kevin See, a senior analyst at Lux research.
Fill 'er up with hydrogen? - Aug. 15, 2013



And for the bicyclists who hate cars? A hydrogen powered water producing bicycle....

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Old 12-31-2013, 03:38 AM
 
1,027 posts, read 1,647,983 times
Reputation: 280
Better than electric cars or hydrogen cars would be cars that run on water.

To charge up the cars battery , it must come from power station that burns fossil fuels.Same with hydrogen it is energy carry not energy source.

I don't know why we cannot get cars to run on water.

These guy seems to think we can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSiShiu9Sgs
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:26 AM
 
Location: DC
6,520 posts, read 6,451,895 times
Reputation: 3127
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweat209 View Post
Better than electric cars or hydrogen cars would be cars that run on water.

To charge up the cars battery , it must come from power station that burns fossil fuels.Same with hydrogen it is energy carry not energy source.

I don't know why we cannot get cars to run on water.

These guy seems to think we can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSiShiu9Sgs
There are fools and charlatans everywhere. You can't fuel a car on water as there is no chemical bond that you can tap for energy. Water is the end product of oxidation not the starting point.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:03 AM
 
1,176 posts, read 2,041,665 times
Reputation: 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Seems the electric car isn't living up to peoples expectations....

What's behind this explosion of fuel cell vehicles?



Fill 'er up with hydrogen? - Aug. 15, 2013



And for the bicyclists who hate cars? A hydrogen powered water producing bicycle....
Battery technology and that a hydrogen fleet is potentially very friendly to the enormous natural gas reserves in the United States.
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:01 AM
 
4,718 posts, read 8,960,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Seems the electric car isn't living up to peoples expectations....

What's behind this explosion of fuel cell vehicles?



Fill 'er up with hydrogen? - Aug. 15, 2013



And for the bicyclists who hate cars? A hydrogen powered water producing bicycle....
Our electric vehicle is living up to our expectations and the next generation is supposed to be even better with a potential cheaper new model coming out. I can't imagine my next vehicle not being a plug-in hybrid. I am even looking at a plug-in pickup to replace my diesel one, when it is time to do so. (That won't be for at least 4 more years though)

Here are the issues as I see them, regarding electric vehicles.

The first problem is the price. I can buy a very fuel efficient ICE vehicle for thousands ($10k-$20k) less than an entry level EREV. (plug-in Hybrid). That buys a lot of fuel, even at $5/gal. 10k miles a year at 30-40 MPG = 250 - 333 Gal. a year or $1250 - $1700... Payback for a $10k premium is still longer than most people own a vehicle. Since we look at optioned out vehicles, this wasn't the case. All of the new vehicles we were considering were close in lease price. Unfortunately, we couldn't wait any longer as our previous vehicle was totaled.

The second problem is use case. Not everyone's use case will support or take advantage of the extra cost of a hybrid, battery only, or plug-in hybrid vehicle. If we drove too many miles a day or where in a very hot or bitter cold climate it might not make sense or if we couldn't ever plug-in (even at home), etc... It's why I like seeing diversity in the vehicle market, Battery only, Extended Range Electric, hybrid-only, fuel efficient gas, natural gas, propane, and diesel. It's also why there are cars, suvs, cuvs, trucks, etc...


Whatever the next generation vehicle is and whatever the "fuel" or "power" source is, I just hope that it is as convenient to fill-up/recharge as the plug-ins are.

The next issue when alternative power sources become mainstream, is going to be road taxes, since you pay road taxes based on how much fuel you use. But that is topic for another thread.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Bend Or.
1,126 posts, read 2,456,760 times
Reputation: 948
[quote=sweat209;32810136]

To charge up the cars battery , it must come from power station that burns fossil fuels.

That is a very general, and incorrect statement. The amount of fossil fuels burned to produce electricity varies greatly in different areas. There are some areas that fossil fuels make up less than 10% of the consumption.
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,604,554 times
Reputation: 10575
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweat209 View Post
Better than electric cars or hydrogen cars would be cars that run on water.
Scientifically impossible as we now understand the laws of chemistry and physics. Pursuit of this goal is in the same category as the pursuit of perpetual energy... it's a waste of time.

Quote:
To charge up the cars battery , it must come from power station that burns fossil fuels.
Not at all... hydroelectric, solar, wind, geothermal, hydrothermal, even biomass and nuclear power plants are online, and displacing fossil fuel sources.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:12 PM
 
1,027 posts, read 1,647,983 times
Reputation: 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
There are fools and charlatans everywhere. You can't fuel a car on water as there is no chemical bond that you can tap for energy. Water is the end product of oxidation not the starting point.
Water has chemical bonds and what does chemical bonds have to do with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
Scientifically impossible as we now understand the laws of chemistry and physics. Pursuit of this goal is in the same category as the pursuit of perpetual energy... it's a waste of time.

What are you saying that water has no energy? Than why does hydrogen have energy?
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,604,554 times
Reputation: 10575
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweat209 View Post
Water has chemical bonds and what does chemical bonds have to do with it.

What are you saying that water has no energy? Than why does hydrogen have energy?
Well, OK... but this is Science 101 material.

Water is a compound of oxygen and hydrogen, and is quite stable. Hydrogen is an element, and it is very reactive and easily oxidized, which releases energy.

To use hydrogen as a fuel it must be separated from water or from natural gas, etc., which requires energy, such as electricity from a solar panel. Hydrogen can be transported in a tank, electricity can't. So producing hydrogen to use as a fuel in a car is basically a way of transporting energy.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:07 AM
 
Location: DC
6,520 posts, read 6,451,895 times
Reputation: 3127
[quote=whirnot;32816542]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweat209 View Post

To charge up the cars battery , it must come from power station that burns fossil fuels.

That is a very general, and incorrect statement. The amount of fossil fuels burned to produce electricity varies greatly in different areas. There are some areas that fossil fuels make up less than 10% of the consumption.
You might find a couple of utilities in the northwest with that mix. More important is an ev charged with coal fired electricity is still cleaner than gasoline powered vehicles.
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