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Old 12-22-2013, 03:31 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,489,817 times
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Yeesh, I already posted all this in the Tesla S thread...

The charger for Teslas is in the car. Various power cables are available, and the ones for a standard AC outlet and for a standard 220v dryer socket are included. Faster charging is available from a higher capacitypower outlet such as some will install in their garage, and businesses make available to employees or customers. The official Tesla charging stations are a bonus, offering super fast charging.

And as I've said before, if your daily commute distance exceeds the range of an EV, that's not going to be a choice that makes sense for you. But the Tesla range of more than 200 miles does make it a viable commuter car for a large majority of consumers, even in Calfornia.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:07 PM
 
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Yep, The charger is in the vehicle - although you can't just plug it in. There is a special box that communicates with the vehicle to allow the juice to flow. Otherwise it wouldn't cost $650 - $2,000+ to have a Level 2 (220v) charging ability. It is designed to do a bunch of checks to make sure electric shock, fire and explosion risk is minimized. It is easier for most of us to just say you have a 110V charger or a 220v charger... What I don't like about the volt is you are limited to 16A 220v, while the Tesla can take up to 30A at 220V (IIRC) and the supercharger is even higher voltage and amperage than that - which is really great.

I can't imagine the pain of having a greater than a 200 - 300 mile round trip to work EVERY day... If you can charge at work, you could have a potential 400-600 mile daily commute. Unless of course you are getting paid to drive, which I count as "work" time and not travel time.

And yes, I believe that a plug-in BEV or even an EREV is not for everyone. Or at least that everyone doesn't have a great use case for one.
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Old 12-22-2013, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,489,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakster View Post
Yep, The charger is in the vehicle - although you can't just plug it in. There is a special box that communicates with the vehicle to allow the juice to flow. Otherwise it wouldn't cost $650 - $2,000+ to have a Level 2 (220v) charging ability. It is designed to do a bunch of checks to make sure electric shock, fire and explosion risk is minimized. It is easier for most of us to just say you have a 110V charger or a 220v charger... What I don't like about the volt is you are limited to 16A 220v, while the Tesla can take up to 30A at 220V (IIRC) and the supercharger is even higher voltage and amperage than that - which is really great.
I think you've misinterpreted some of that information...

The charger IS in the car, and you CAN just plug it in with the included mobile charging cords. One is for a standard 110v 12A household plug, and gives a charge rate comparable to three miles of travel per hour of charge. Obviously that is provided for emergency use where no other electricity is available.

But the Nema 14-30 plug included, which is a standard electric dryer outlet in many home garages, is a 220v 24A plug, which yields 17 miles of travel per hour of charge, or 12 hours for a 220 mile charge, which is quite practical for an overnight charge.

There are also plug adapters available for the 220v 40A outlets used for RV campers and welding equipment, which provide 29 miles of travel for a 1 hour charge, nearly twice as fast as the standard dryer plug, or a full 220 mile charge in 7.5 hours... for those who work double shifts.

For convenience, those wishing a still faster charge may opt to add a second "Twin" charger to the car, and a High Power supply station on the wall to obtain up to 58 miles of travel per hour of charge, meaning a full charge will only take 4 hours... but that's for convenience, not a necessity.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:24 AM
 
9,756 posts, read 9,998,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
Sorry, did you not realize the topic is the $40K Tesla E?
the additional concern is about maintenance for a more average price vehicle. Someone who can afford a $70K-$100K is probably not worried about it's value going to zero in six years.

The findings of the 2013 ‘Your Driving Costs’ study by AAA include (own and operate):

Based on Driving 15,000 miles annually

[CENTER]Small [/CENTER]
[CENTER]Sedan[/CENTER]
[CENTER]Medium Sedan[/CENTER]
[CENTER]Large Sedan[/CENTER]
[CENTER]Sedan Average[/CENTER]
[CENTER]SUV 4WD[/CENTER]
[CENTER]Minivan[/CENTER]
Cost Per Mile

[CENTER]46.4 cents[/CENTER]
[CENTER]61.0 cents[/CENTER]
[CENTER]75.0 cents[/CENTER]
[CENTER]60.8 cents[/CENTER]
[CENTER]77.3 cents[/CENTER]
[CENTER]65.3 cents[/CENTER]


A $40K car vehicle that is financed at reasonable rate that goes to zero value in six years would cost you 47 cents per mile. That is before you are paying the charge bills plus the costs of swapping out batteries.

I could imagine the costs being higher than anything above.

Plus the logistics of servicing a million Electric Vehicles. It's one thing to service a few thousand Teslas most of which are being sold in the same neighborhoods and have a limited routes (San Francisco to Los Angeles).
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:26 PM
 
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OpenD - So the Tesla does not follow any of the safety protocols that Chevy, Ford, Nissan, and Toyota follow? The J1772 Standard? They use something called an EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) to allow the vehicle to charge.

You can just run a wire with the correct plug ends on it from the wall to the car? Like an extension cord? The mobile charging cords should be SMART cords, right?

When I go to the Tesla website about charging, it doesn't look like a simple cord to me. There is a BOX on it. That BOX communicates with the car so that the "charger" in the car knows the voltage and amperage to use. From the get-go you get a smarter "EVSE" than what comes with the Volt. I *can* get a EVSE that will auto switch between 110V and 220v, but there is no reason to. The BOX is also supposed to determine if GFI is good. I own a EV car, so I am only going by my experience with a Volt. (and happen to know the LEAF and C-MAX Energi are the same as well)

Tesla also has a cordless charging solution - which I can also get for the volt. That would be the bomb, just pull into the garage and you automatically start charging.

Tesla's website on charging: Tesla Charging | Tesla Motors
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,489,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakster View Post
You can just run a wire with the correct plug ends on it from the wall to the car? Like an extension cord?
Yes, that is correct. As the website you linked to clearly says in the Mobile Connections section at the top:

"When your Model S arrives, your Delivery Experience Specialist will explain how to use the Mobile Connector. You’ll find that charging your car is a lot like plugging in your cell phone."

Later down the page is information on the OPTIONAL High Power Wall Connection, for faster charging speeds.
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,489,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
the additional concern is about maintenance for a more average price vehicle. Someone who can afford a $70K-$100K is probably not worried about it's value going to zero in six years.
Keep in mind that is based on the historical record for cars with Internal Combustion Engines, and it is based on their useful service life. And since it was reported in August by CNN and others that the AVERAGE age of cars being operated in the USA is 11.3 years, apparently the vast majority of cars on out streets and highways would be worthless, by what the AAA figures seem to say, while clearly they are not.

What we don't know yet, because there isn't enough practical experience with them yet, is how well EVs will hold their value. The batteries might need to be replaced every 100,000 miles, but what about the vehicle itself? What if it is practical to drive one for 25 years? What if they last 500,000 miles, on average? What would that do to resale values of ICE cars that are completely worn out after 150,000 miles?

Quote:
Plus the logistics of servicing a million Electric Vehicles. It's one thing to service a few thousand Teslas most of which are being sold in the same neighborhoods and have a limited routes (San Francisco to Los Angeles).
How is that different from the logistics of putting any new car brand on the market? That didn't seem to slow down the Mini Coopers, when they came in, or more recently the Fiat 500s.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:07 PM
 
4,718 posts, read 8,928,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
Yes, that is correct. As the website you linked to clearly says in the Mobile Connections section at the top:

"When your Model S arrives, your Delivery Experience Specialist will explain how to use the Mobile Connector. You’ll find that charging your car is a lot like plugging in your cell phone."

Later down the page is information on the OPTIONAL High Power Wall Connection, for faster charging speeds.
Tesla operates completely different from every other EV on the market then... And are the exception and not the rule.

I am assuming you own a Tesla?
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,489,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakster View Post
Tesla operates completely different from every other EV on the market then... And are the exception and not the rule.
That doesn't surprise me. Tesla is a very different company from all the competition. Elon Musk is the billionaire ($6.7 B as of Sept 2013) genius inventor and entrepreneur behind the SpaceX rocket transportation company, as well as the Tesla automobile company. He's already patented more than 100 of his innovations, which other EV companies are now in the process of licensing from Tesla. He's been a paid consultant with several other companies on their EV designs. He started his design approach with a clean sheet of paper, so he hasn't been held back by the "design by committee" approach other carmakers have been using.

Part of the reason I am so amped up over the Tesla cars is that Musk is such a remarkable innovator, and he's really changing the rules in this arena. And possibly his biggest accomplishment to date is to make electric vehicles sexy, and exciting to the public.

Quote:
I am assuming you own a Tesla?
Why assume that?
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:11 AM
 
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I have a lot of respect for Elon Musk too. And I would love to own a Tesla one day. Maybe this new 'E' will be the one. Of course without a generator - for the time being it would need to be a local vehicle only. I hope that you are right about the 110V and 220V charging. I have a dryer style plug located towards the front of the garage - currently I use it to run an air compressor that I rarely use anymore. The wife has a free 220V charging station at work too using the J1772 standard. FWIW, the volt is just as easy as plugging in a cell phone too.

Although, in a couple of years if the Tesla site is correct, I shouldn't have too much of a problem using rapid charging network for my longer drives if I wanted to. It does take more planning and will take longer to do the drive, but worth it considering I will have done my 4,000 mile vacation drive using NO FUEL.

I also agree with you, that the life of an EV vehicle should be longer than a traditional vehicle with an ICE and with less maintenance assuming the battery packs don't need replacement. At least most EV companies battery warranties are fairly long at 80k-100k miles. Although since my Volt has been at the dealer going on a week and for the second time, I am starting to wonder. It is all electrical issues with the different computers. One of the things I was afraid of, which is why we leased our first EV.

I just figured since you had so much information on just the Tesla you owned one, that is all.
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