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Yes, it is, Mack, because energy must consumed to recycle that bag, and it is not a clean process. Reusing is always superior to recycling. Always. And the more times a product can be reused, the better, which is why I'm sticking with the nylon bags for as long as they hold up. When they are beyond repair, I will try to find a recycler for them (not possible right now, but perhaps in a few years).
Last edited by randomparent; 02-20-2014 at 04:50 PM..
The question is, how is recycling the plastic bag any different that buying one made of nylon and reusing it? If the plastic bags were recycled, they could be made into another type of bag or another product.
Simple. Reusing a bag uses far less energy than recycling a bag.
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Maybe the new bag is more efficient for your needs. Bravo to you but it isn't a better solution than recycling the plastic bag, it is just different and you can't really demonstrate that your solution is better than the other.
Actually, you can, and many people have done the calcs that prove it. Just look around a little on the interwebz.
Here in Hawai'i County those single-use plastic shopping bags were banned a short time ago, after a long ramp up, but I prepared for it long ago by buying inexpensive reusable shopping bags, with sturdy handles, that I've used ever since. Since each of these seems to carry as much groceries as at least two throw-away bags, then the 4 I use replace 8 of the other kind X52 weeks a year = 416 plastic shopping bags I don't have to personally haul to the County transfer station to dispose of each year.
Simple. Reusing a bag uses far less energy than recycling a bag.
Actually, you can, and many people have done the calcs that prove it. Just look around a little on the interwebz.
Here in Hawai'i County those single-use plastic shopping bags were banned a short time ago, after a long ramp up, but I prepared for it long ago by buying inexpensive reusable shopping bags, with sturdy handles, that I've used ever since. Since each of these seems to carry as much groceries as at least two throw-away bags, then the 4 I use replace 8 of the other kind X52 weeks a year = 416 plastic shopping bags I don't have to personally haul to the County transfer station to dispose of each year.
No kidding, I said you can easily (and it is a fact) reuse the plastic shopping bags. You must have missed that part, how I don't know because I made sure to say so more than once.
Like many of your comments, you gloss over the point and then link everything to your individual lifestyle in Hawaii. So much for that.
Hmmm, 416 plastic shopping bags. You have to "haul" them to the Country Transfer Station? No wonder Ford is making their new F150 lighter and Dodge is putting a Diesel in their 1500 trucks, those plastic trash bags sure do weigh a lot.
I can't stop laughing and just who are you kidding? No doubt," hauling" means transporting them via the electric car right? So then, what is the problem with "hauling" about a pound of plastic bags (after reusing them) to the Country Transfer Station? You mean to say that would be the only reason you go there, to "haul" a pound of plastic bags for recycling? Well then, keep them around until you have 10 pounds of them, the won't even fill a small cardboard box that can be recycled too unless that is also a problem.
So you'll have to "haul" those reused bags once every ten years.
Don't you have a recycling can that is emptied like almost everyone else or do you also "haul" all your refuse to the Country Transfer Station.
As usual, you can't ever seem to fathom that no one said using other bag materials or types was wrong but that it is possible as someone else pointed out, the thin plastic shopping bags are reusable and recyclable.
Like many of your comments, you gloss over the point and then link everything to your individual lifestyle in Hawaii. So much for that.
Like many of your comments you resort to making personal comments rather than debating the actual issue.
And of course I relate my views to my personal experience, as does nearly everyone here.
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Hmmm, 416 plastic shopping bags. You have to "haul" them to the Country Transfer Station?
Yes, along with the rest of my trash, obviously. There is no pickup service in rural areas like mine and we have to haul everything ourselves. The obvious point I was making being that my plastic bags wind up in the landfill, along with those of about 187,000 of my neighbors, never to break down, never to be useful again, just taking up space. For one person the waste is hardly worth noticing, but taken in the whole it's a growing problem.
Your reductio ad absurdum argument is merely absurd.
Try again. And next time leave out the personal comments. They make you feel more clever than you really are.
Like many of your comments you resort to making personal comments rather than debating the actual issue.
And of course I relate my views to my personal experience, as does nearly everyone here.
Yes, along with the rest of my trash, obviously. There is no pickup service in rural areas like mine and we have to haul everything ourselves. The obvious point I was making being that my plastic bags wind up in the landfill, along with those of about 187,000 of my neighbors, never to break down, never to be useful again, just taking up space. For one person the waste is hardly worth noticing, but taken in the whole it's a growing problem.
Your reductio ad absurdum argument is merely absurd.
Try again. And next time leave out the personal comments. They make you feel more clever than you really are.
You obviously have no idea how a landfill functions. If you did, that statement about plastic bags "never" breaking down would seem as silly to you as it truly is. Very few materials put into a landfill "break down" because of the way landfills are constructed and how they function within the environment.
Landfill-taking up space. That is the purpose of a landfill and why it is called a landfill and not a compost heap, breakdown heap or anything else similar. Learn the difference between what landfill is, why they exist and what function they perform and how they operate. Then compare that to how a composting system work, why they exist and how they operate.
Try learning about what and how a landfill operates before you talk about plastic bags not breaking down. It is obvious you have no idea about either.
Mod Warning: Dispute the issue, not the person. Personal attacks will not be tolerated; if this thread continues to devolve into a personal argument, it will be closed and infractions issued as appropriate.
Of course I know the difference between landfills and composting, which is precisely why I used the example I did. The unrecyclable plastic you don't bring into your home, which can't be composted, doesn't wind up in the landfill, and landfills are a growing concern in communities like mine.
I think most people know that landfills, with their large potential for toxic pollution of the environment, are heavily regulated and increasingly expensive to operate. Simply getting all the necessary permits for a community landfill can take years, and cost millions of dollars. It's a key motivation behind community composting programs, which can divert a large portion of a community's waste stream away from landfills and into a naturally regenerative process that can benefit agriculture and landscaping. But plastics can't be composted.
Here in Hilo, to highlight a situation I know well, the current landfill, near the airport, is on increasingly valuable land and is rapidly nearing capacity. The heavy rains and porous gound make the site especially problematic. It nearly had to be closed a couple of years ago, and for a while nearly garbage 80 trucks per day made the more than 4 hour round trip to the only other operating landfill on the opposite side of the island. Then an extraordinary effort to solve the issues and extend the EPA permits allowed the current landfill to continue operation for a few more years, but now, time is again running out. And there's no good idea on how to replace it.
But some efforts to reduce the load on the landfills are emerging. The last electronic device I received was not packed in styrofoam, which winds up in the landfill, but in molded paper pulp packing, which went right on my own composting pile. This time next year it will be on my garden.
Of course I know the difference between landfills and composting, which is precisely why I used the example I did. The unrecyclable plastic you don't bring into your home, which can't be composted, doesn't wind up in the landfill, and landfills are a growing concern in communities like mine.
I think most people know that landfills, with their large potential for toxic pollution of the environment, are heavily regulated and increasingly expensive to operate. Simply getting all the necessary permits for a community landfill can take years, and cost millions of dollars. It's a key motivation behind community composting programs, which can divert a large portion of a community's waste stream away from landfills and into a naturally regenerative process that can benefit agriculture and landscaping. But plastics can't be composted.
Here in Hilo, to highlight a situation I know well, the current landfill, near the airport, is on increasingly valuable land and is rapidly nearing capacity. The heavy rains and porous gound make the site especially problematic. It nearly had to be closed a couple of years ago, and for a while nearly garbage 80 trucks per day made the more than 4 hour round trip to the only other operating landfill on the opposite side of the island. Then an extraordinary effort to solve the issues and extend the EPA permits allowed the current landfill to continue operation for a few more years, but now, time is again running out. And there's no good idea on how to replace it.
But some efforts to reduce the load on the landfills are emerging. The last electronic device I received was not packed in styrofoam, which winds up in the landfill, but in molded paper pulp packing, which went right on my own composting pile. This time next year it will be on my garden.
Not everyone lives in Hawaii and the fact is that non-native peoples screwed up that environment and continue to do so. Set the example but that isn't even considered. Move to a location far less impacted by the trash and adverse effects you have on the ecosystem. Ever thought about that?
That electronic device you received. Do you not see the hypocrisy? Just how did that nice electronic device get manufactured? Probably with the use of industrial solvents that emit vapors known to cause cancers, damage most living organisms it comes in contact with and for while few actual safe repositories of the resultant waste products are available.
Then that electronic device got shipped to you. Did it arrive on the Islands via solar powered vehicle? Nope, it was transported one of two ways, ship, which uses oil or aircraft which uses oil. How are we doing so far? I'm pretty sure we can exclude submarine from one of the delivery methods.
What happens to that electronic device after it's useful life is over? Recycled? So it is okay to recycle or reuse the plastic from that electronic device, the type of plastic made with solvents but not thin plastic shopping bags which are proven to be reusable and recyclable?
What happens to the solder used in that electronic device? Is it recycled? What about all the other components in that device? Okay, say they are recycled. Where do they end up, getting shipped back to the mainland or elsewhere? I doubt they remain on the Islands. The costs in both money and environmental impact to get those recycled materials back to some origin where they can actually be used far exceeds any benefit.
You see, when you think about the end to end use, what happens in Hawaii doesn't stay in Hawaii and the damages to Hawaii and the rest of the environment are on a larger scale for even small things than almost anywhere else.
Not thinking end to end is the problem. Does that electronic device use electricity? Sure it does and I bet you have devices that use batteries too and while you might have a solar battery charger, did those batteries get made locally or were they also shipped or flown to you?
Since we all know there is no rail system from anywhere to the Islands, everything you have with the exception of locally produced goods or locally harvested foodstuffs, requires are more use of oil than those living almost anywhere else in the Continental USA.
While the claim is all these "green" lifestyle conditions and efforts, the fact is that it is anything but that and in fact non-native existence on the Islands has a greater determinate effect on that environment than if you lived almost anywhere else.
Lets face the facts here, since living in Hawaii always comes up, the damages to the environment are at a much greater degree than most people living in the continental USA. Almost all durable goods and most expendable ones you use require a greater amount of fossil fuel just to get to you than in the continental USA. I take it that wardrobes doesn't consist of banana leaves and coconut shell hats, am I right?
Ever hear of the swallow camels and choke on mice syndrome?
The green industry is full of this syndrome where the ends justify the means even if the means are contrary to doing what is right.
Plastic shopping bags? Those are the mice. What the mere presence of non-native people are doing in Hawaii just being there is the camel.
Last edited by Mack Knife; 02-25-2014 at 05:48 AM..
If certain individuals insist on using their personal experiences to support their opinions, then those personal experiences should be fair play and open for examination, and challenge.
Those that insist on using personal experiences at every juncture but then claim things are personal are being disingenuous in their posts. As is so often the case, it is let me do but only when I do it.
I grew up in the 1980s, and still remember when peanut butter jars were made of glass. People drank water from a tap. If a Coca-Cola machine didn't spit out a can, you'd get a glass bottle. The default bag at a grocery store (or any store) was paper, not plastic.
At some point, likely due to profit margins, everything converted to plastic, at the same time when curbside recycling became an option for most of the country and would've reduced our garbage output, which instead increased. Now, you have to go out of your way to avoid plastic products, which can mean anything from an inconvenience to a hardship depending on your situation or location.
50 years ago, everyday plastic was barely seen. Why is it now not a dirty word like GMOs, coal and high-fructose corn syrup? Will this ever change, or are we resigned to a plasticized nation of convenience, environmental impact be damned?
Plastic grocery bags are actually 'better' than paper bags, in that they have more reusable features and are easier to recycle. But the best route is really a canvas bag.
Plastic is in virtually everything, so no, the US will never rid itself of plastic. We could drastically reduce our use of it though.
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and the fact is that non-native peoples screwed up that environment and continue to do so. Set the example but that isn't even considered. Move to a location far less impacted by the trash and adverse effects you have on the ecosystem. Ever thought about that?
