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Old 02-07-2014, 03:53 PM
 
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Never, more than likely. It is far too useful. Besides, not all plastics are created equal and most of those used in food packaging and storage are generally considered biochemically inert. The smart way to handle plastic waste is by recycling and reusing.

Glass has its high points as well, but it also comes with drawbacks. It takes an incredible amount of energy to mine aggregates and then create and mold a glass product. It is heavy and, therefore, takes more energy to transport. It's also brittle and prone to breakage. It also takes much more energy to recycle it. Stop and consider the days when soda bottles were re-used. They literally consumed more energy to transport to and from the bottler on a single round trip than a plastic bottle does to manufacture and ship several times over. The empty glass bottle was shipped from the manufacturer to the bottler. The bottle was filled. The bottle was delivered to a distributor and then to a store. The store sold it to the consumers who drove it to their house. The empty container then had to make the return trip. A 32 oz. "heavy" glass bottle weighed nearly as much as the product (something like 22 oz.). A 2 liter bottle weighs maybe an ounce. If the US uses about 6 billion bottles a year (which is feasible), that comes to roughly 8 billion pounds in excess bottle shipping -- that's a lot of fuel. They also had to be washed, disinfected, and dried -- that's a lot of water and energy as well.
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Old 02-07-2014, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Portal to the Pacific
8,736 posts, read 8,641,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
Never, more than likely. It is far too useful. Besides, not all plastics are created equal and most of those used in food packaging and storage are generally considered biochemically inert. The smart way to handle plastic waste is by recycling and reusing.

Glass has its high points as well, but it also comes with drawbacks. It takes an incredible amount of energy to mine aggregates and then create and mold a glass product. It is heavy and, therefore, takes more energy to transport. It's also brittle and prone to breakage. It also takes much more energy to recycle it. Stop and consider the days when soda bottles were re-used. They literally consumed more energy to transport to and from the bottler on a single round trip than a plastic bottle does to manufacture and ship several times over. The empty glass bottle was shipped from the manufacturer to the bottler. The bottle was filled. The bottle was delivered to a distributor and then to a store. The store sold it to the consumers who drove it to their house. The empty container then had to make the return trip. A 32 oz. "heavy" glass bottle weighed nearly as much as the product (something like 22 oz.). A 2 liter bottle weighs maybe an ounce. If the US uses about 6 billion bottles a year (which is feasible), that comes to roughly 8 billion pounds in excess bottle shipping -- that's a lot of fuel. They also had to be washed, disinfected, and dried -- that's a lot of water and energy as well.
The plastics you are talking about are biochemically inert in their current state, however, in the process of being recycled they change and degrade. Plastics cannot be recycled well unless they are all of the same sort. This is a huge problem for facilities to control. You are also ignoring the fact that all this plastic is NOT ending up in recycling facilities but in the oceans and the environment, and attracting harmful chemicals and heavy metals before finding their way into biological systems, mimicking hormones and damaging DNA.

Most of the drawbacks you are talking about with glass have more to do with the energy in transportation. That would be a problem if our economic system didn't change. I am assuming that in the future, we'll have to be very conservative with fuel, unless we find a cheap, reliable alternative to fossil fuels. If we don't, or we don't soon enough, you will see a transformation in local production and distribution of products. Glass will be affordable to use because it's not going to travel far from producer to store to home back to producer.

As for recycling.. well, both plastic and glass need energy. Plastics require an energy source to melt the plastic. Glass requires energy for washing, and perhaps disinfecting. The benefit to glass is that molecular structure remains intact and it doesn't degrade through various reuses. That is not currently possible with the majority of plastics.

I've been buying my milk local in glass for a couple years now and we've only broken two containers (I broke one and so did my 7 year old). I think it's important to note that if you think something is important and valuable you will take much better care of it. This is how I feel about my milk and glass bottles. I know the milk is more expensive, but I also know that the cows are given the highest quality care and food available. It's part of a qualitative value system.. how do you put a price on respect and thoughtfulness? I am paying for a process as much as I'm paying for a product. I am paying for a process that I think is more sustainable and gifting than one that is harmful and negligent.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Volcano
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Glass continues to be a viable packaging material, as I suspect it will be for the foreseeable future.

According to EPA figures, in 2010 only 8% of the plastic used in the US was recycled, while 27% of glass was.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
I recognize that I'm an outlier, because I try to avoid packaging in general. This means I don't drink soda, and I make my own mustard from bulk ingredients. My milk is delivered in glass bottles, which are returned to the dairy for sterilization and re-bottling. The very few jars and bottles that now come through my door will be reused if at all possible. I know that not everyone can live this way, but I'd love to see stores make it easier for customers to adopt a more conservation-minded approach to product packaging, whether glass or plastic, by providing bulk goods and allowing us to refill our own containers.
Not a very sanitary or safe option, if you want my 2 cents. Anybody can put anything in the bin, most of which I would rather do without. But what-the-heck - knock yourself out if that's your thing. Seems odd, though. In this corner, everyone is obsessed with hand-sanitizer, and in the other corner, they want to collect their food from a "public" bin. I'll take mine in a sealed container, plastic or glass.

Last edited by Mike Bridges; 02-13-2014 at 05:39 PM..
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:37 PM
 
Location: The analog world
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You're welcome to give your $.02, and I appreciate your perspective. I can only share my experiences, which are as follows...

As someone on immunosuppressive therapy, I am significantly more vulnerable to infection than most. In the two years I've been undergoing treatment, I've gotten sick once with a cold my son brought home from school. I'm not worried about the bulk bins, particularly since my grocery uses dispensers for most of the products I bulk products I purchase. To keep myself healthy, I wash my hands with regular bar soap before I eat and immediately upon returning home from being out and about. I think the hysteria over bulk bins is overplayed.

Last edited by randomparent; 02-13-2014 at 06:31 PM..
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Old 02-13-2014, 07:31 PM
 
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Another important thing is to wash before you use the facilities, not just after. Your hand is going to go near a germ entry point so you should start out disinfected.

I assume the bulk bins are the type you turn a handle or push a knob and the stuff comes out. Kind of a one-way type deal. Not thrilled about the barrel in the middle of aisle type thing. Or a barrel that only the gloved employees get for you. Like how you buy deli meat.

RP - Do you get deli meat? Have you ever handed them your own container so they don't put in plastic wrap? Just another thought I had.
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Old 02-13-2014, 07:53 PM
 
Location: The analog world
17,077 posts, read 13,316,143 times
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Originally Posted by Dakster View Post
RP - Do you get deli meat? Have you ever handed them your own container so they don't put in plastic wrap? Just another thought I had.
No, sliced meats that I order from the deli counter come in a light-weight storage bag. I can't get around that one, which I think is a county health code requirement. Usually I cut off the zipper and place the remainder in the plastic bag recycling bin when I return to the store. Other than deli items though, my grocer (Whole Foods) has been remarkably cooperative with taring my glass jars, and they've provided lots of helpful feedback to make the process simpler. Because I shop at the same place and time, I've become a familiar face to the meat/poultry/fish guys (and gals), so they know what to do without me asking. Last time I was there, another customer asked about my jars when I was buying cod fillets, and before I could even answer, the fishmonger smiled broadly and said, "This is her way of conserving! Isn't it great?"

Back to the plastic bag issue, I should mention that I do have a few heavy-duty zipper bags in the house. My MIL sometimes sends stuff home with the kids in a Ziploc freezer bag, and they are extremely sturdy. I hate the waste of trashing them, so if possible I wash them out and put them aside for emergencies, travel, school projects, etc. I have competitive swimmers, and a large Ziploc bag comes in handy for transporting wet suits to and from the pool. With a little care, the bags last at least the season and often much longer.

Edit: Did a little research and learned something new. I love it when that happens! I was under the impression that the zippers were made of a different kind of plastic than the bag and had to be removed and discarded, but it turns out that the entire thing can be placed in the plastic bag recycling bin, as can other lightweight plastic sheeting, like dry cleaning bags. So rather than trashing that zipper bag -- after you've reused it a gazillion times, of course -- just take it back to your grocery for recycling.

Last edited by randomparent; 02-13-2014 at 09:04 PM..
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:38 AM
 
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Thanks RP -- that is nice to now about the bag zippers. And we do the same for our kids with the large zip lock bags and swim gear. Also use it for PE uniforms and other sports equipment. Keeps the smell down in the car on the ride home to the washing machine and other things don't get wet with pool water or sweat.

I wash the ziplocks out when possible as well. However, If I put meat in them, I won't use them for food storage again, as the risk of bacteria is too high for me. But they transition to clothes and other non-edible item storage duties. I store the house crayons and makers in them as an example.

The meat storage part is important to me. I don't mess around with that. As an example, during a major power outage after a hurricane, we had raw chicken brought to us in a 55 gal plastic drum of ice to be BBQd for the hundreds of workers we had. After all the chicken was cooked, the drum was cleaned out and put back into use as a place to cool down bottled water and canned drinks... It was supposedly scrubbed with soap, but not bleach. Needless to say, the bathrooms were never empty the next few days. Luckily, I was off the day that happened, so I didn't get to partake in all the hurtin' and squirtin'. Remembering that the ice wasn't used IN a drink, it was just surrounding a bottle or can...
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,808 posts, read 6,919,710 times
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I'm surprised no one mentioned the hard plastic shell on just about everything you buy. Totally unnecessary IMO and a real nightmare to get to the actual product. I don't see how you can get around this problem unless manufacturers stop packaging products in that way.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:18 AM
 
4,715 posts, read 10,490,587 times
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Actually, we did talk about it and agree with you on that point. It "anti-theft" packaging. Or in some cases for me, anti-use packaging as it is too difficult to get the item you want out of it.
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