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Old 04-02-2014, 01:23 AM
 
Location: Sector 001
7,233 posts, read 6,424,901 times
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Given how many people mow the lawn in the summer... and the fact that lawns themselves aren't even the most environmentally friendly thing around, I'm surprised here in 2014 that we still don't have any sort of mandated requirement to use a catalytic converter. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on the subject would chime in on the issue.

I'm a social libertarian of sorts who supports gun rights, owns multiple guns, supports marijuana legalization, etc. but also support common sense legislation to combat pollution, and I'd have no problem spending an extra 50-100 bucks to use a mower augmented with a converter... plus as a person who owns physical palladium and sees it as an attractive investment, I'd probably get my money back and then some... the amount of palladium used in each one is trivial, but adds up to a lot of ounces in a tight market.


In any case, I'd like to hear your opinions on the matter. Also if you have any opinions on 2 stroke boating engines which I also have issue with when it comes to lake pollution, and boating in general, feel free to chime in.
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:53 AM
 
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I can agree that lawnmowers need something. Wonder what ever happened to NoxFox being used? That looked like you could just pop it in to the existing empty muffler and you got a quieter and cleaner mower. My relatively new circa 2008 walk behind lawn mower is better than the one I had in 1999, but you can still smell it running. At least it has an automatic choke and carburetor on it that you can't adjust and it rarely blows any visible smoke/particulate. Even worse is my 2-cycle weed eater, edger, blower combo unit. Why those are not 4 cycle now I don't know. The big push against this is the motor manufacturers and it looks like they succeeded in getting the requirement squashed.

As far as boats go, I know plenty of people that wish they had 4 cycle boat motors. First, they all have blown 2 cycle motors because the oil injection system failed or they forgot to mix 2 stroke oil in. One is so paranoid he disables the auto injection system anytime he gets a new boat or motor and manually adds 2 stroke oil in. To me boating isn't really fun wen you have to smell the motor running.

Where can you buy ACTUAL palladium and not own it electronically?
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:39 AM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,833,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz View Post
Given how many people mow the lawn in the summer... and the fact that lawns themselves aren't even the most environmentally friendly thing around, I'm surprised here in 2014 that we still don't have any sort of mandated requirement to use a catalytic converter. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on the subject would chime in on the issue.

I'm a social libertarian of sorts who supports gun rights, owns multiple guns, supports marijuana legalization, etc. but also support common sense legislation to combat pollution, and I'd have no problem spending an extra 50-100 bucks to use a mower augmented with a converter... plus as a person who owns physical palladium and sees it as an attractive investment, I'd probably get my money back and then some... the amount of palladium used in each one is trivial, but adds up to a lot of ounces in a tight market.


In any case, I'd like to hear your opinions on the matter. Also if you have any opinions on 2 stroke boating engines which I also have issue with when it comes to lake pollution, and boating in general, feel free to chime in.
First, lots of people allow the growth of whatever grows naturally but still mow it to avoid fire hazards and other problems.

There are CARB compliant mowers so one can buy them even if they aren't in California. While they still don't use fuel as less polluting than many cars, they are still a much better option if one is concerned about that aspect of their use.

The days of gasoline engine mowers is numbered. The manufacturers know this and aren't putting much money into research or development for their gas fueled mowers.

If there was a really concerted effort to address the problem with gas fueled mowers, they could make them fueled with propane instead and not have to change too much since mowers for the most part use carburetors.

Already, big box stores and others are selling electric mowers, both push and riding with enough endurance to mow as long as most home owners and even those with substantial gardens would like. For a mower, the electric motor is at least as good and likely a better solution for power since torque is very important for their efficient operation.

This is where solar charging could really be an advantage because mowers aren't generally being used every day so there is plenty of time to recharge between uses.

I'd rather spend extra money on an electric riding mower than spending more on a catalytic feature mower any day. My next mower will be an electric because setting up the solar charging for it is simple and for the sporadic use, fits the system nicely.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,576 posts, read 8,496,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
First, lots of people allow the growth of whatever grows naturally but still mow it to avoid fire hazards and other problems.

There are CARB compliant mowers so one can buy them even if they aren't in California. While they still don't use fuel as less polluting than many cars, they are still a much better option if one is concerned about that aspect of their use.

The days of gasoline engine mowers is numbered. The manufacturers know this and aren't putting much money into research or development for their gas fueled mowers.

If there was a really concerted effort to address the problem with gas fueled mowers, they could make them fueled with propane instead and not have to change too much since mowers for the most part use carburetors.

Already, big box stores and others are selling electric mowers, both push and riding with enough endurance to mow as long as most home owners and even those with substantial gardens would like. For a mower, the electric motor is at least as good and likely a better solution for power since torque is very important for their efficient operation.

This is where solar charging could really be an advantage because mowers aren't generally being used every day so there is plenty of time to recharge between uses.

I'd rather spend extra money on an electric riding mower than spending more on a catalytic feature mower any day. My next mower will be an electric because setting up the solar charging for it is simple and for the sporadic use, fits the system nicely.
How can you say this? Both of my push mowers are at least 10 yrs. old and anyone can keep them running? Both my riders are at least 5 yrs. old. I have a '55 international 500 utility that I mow with as well. You will never see the absence of small gas powered equipment. Mowers, tillers all that stuff will be around burning gas for as long as anyone reading this will be around....
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:27 PM
 
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I don't see the lawn service companies using electric riding mowers anytime soon. No enough time between yards to charge them up enough. Most people around me do NOT cut their own yard. And until you have a sophisticated battery management system in place, the electric mowers will be a fad because the battery replacement cost is huge. And rechargeable batteries do not last long if not maintained. I can't even keep cordless drill batteries around for more than a couple of years, to the point that I am going back to corded ones.

What a sorta liked until it was, too expensive, was the lawn bot. It would go out automatically, cut the grass in stages and come back to charge on its own. It takes a lot to get a yard ready for one of those those and I had way too many obstacles for it go around. In addition, it cost a couple of thousand. That buys a lot of fuel for the $200 mower I bought. I use MAYBE 1/2 gal every time I cut the grass. If its a bad year, 2x month the grass is cut, so $4 a month on average or round up to $50 a year. And that is using non-ethanol fuel which is more $ than Regular. Wonder what the electric stuff costs to charge (probably pennies) but what is the life span of the battery and its replacement cost.

I'm all for non-gas powered appliances - I just don't see them leaving anytime soon either. The tech just isn't there beyond a niche' market. Which is fine - and that niche' should have it available to them. Just like I am happy to go out and buy legacy corded power tools - and they are nice and cheap at Harbor Freight.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:20 PM
 
39,193 posts, read 40,579,931 times
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Originally Posted by Dakster View Post
Even worse is my 2-cycle weed eater, edger, blower combo unit. Why those are not 4 cycle now I don't know.
Two reasons, A)*most* 4 cycle engines need to remain in the upright position because they need to pump oil and B)Weight.
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:18 PM
 
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I figured by now, they could be made lighter and made to work in all positions. Although it is probably cost prohibitive... They have electric and battery ones - the battery ones are heavier that the 2-cycle gas motors.

I could imagine a small fuel injector instead of a carb on them... Then the darn thing might start on the first pull and who would want that. I get my workout starting the weedeater. (sarcasm - marked for humor impaired)

I do have an electric chainsaw and that thing is great for the minor cutting I need to do with it. It is for the stuff that is too big for the branch cutters/loppers but it overkill for a real chainsaw. And not having to mess with fuel, bad fuel, fouled plugs, etc... Noise is another thing that the electric chainsaw doesn't have. ANd funny you can let an electric motor sit forever - plug it in and push the button and it works.

Gas has its place as electric power isn't everywhere - and until they can make "clean 2-cycle" or a "4-cycle" that can be used in the smaller application we are stuck with what is out there as much as I dislike it.
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:54 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,833,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
How can you say this? Both of my push mowers are at least 10 yrs. old and anyone can keep them running? Both my riders are at least 5 yrs. old. I have a '55 international 500 utility that I mow with as well. You will never see the absence of small gas powered equipment. Mowers, tillers all that stuff will be around burning gas for as long as anyone reading this will be around....
I can say that because there is a big difference between what people already have and what they will buy in the future. I don't recall saying anything about mowers already in existence, I was talking about new models being developed and sold.

Many manufacturers of small gasoline fueled engines are already developing alternatives because the completed product manufacturers (most mower brands don't make their own engines, they buy them from companies like Briggs & Stratton etc) are already moving to electric.

Now, if you want to present an argument that mowers aren't moving toward electric in ever increasing numbers, ok, lets see it. Have you seen any significant developments in small gasoline engines used in mowers? Not much from what I see. They are already hurting just trying to stay ahead of California's CARB standards, evidenced by the very limited number of different engines and models available compared to some time ago or in the other 49 states.

For what most people use a mower for, the electrics are already there and more people are starting to buy them. For that once a week mowing job, the electric works fine, even for the riding models. What happens is that the electrics offer homeowners some pretty big benefits over the gas powered models. They are much quieter, no gas or oil or filters to mess with, no engine tuneups, gas going bad. Lots of people don't want to ride a mower because they are so loud. The typical riding mower is loud, smells, won't start at the most inopportune times and then you're left dealing with service schedules.

The guy next door fires up the gas mower on Sat or Sun morning and that is the end of peace and quiet. Jump on the riding electric and you can barely hear it just a little ways away. I tested one and the difference is amazing. No more vibration, just the whiring from the blades. You grab the steering wheel and nothing, no vibration or shaking.

I don't mow a large area, about an acre, little more but that is more than most people need. Granted, in some locations you need to mow acres but that isn't every one or even most people. From what I found, one can get out, mow their acre of grass or weeds on a single charge and never wake anyone up doing it. That means being able to get to the mowing after the heat of the day when everyone might already be settling down. Last thing they want to hear is a gas mower but an electric means no big deal.

Yeah, I can see electric mowers, especially the riding models taking over that market.

Last edited by Mack Knife; 04-02-2014 at 07:10 PM..
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:39 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,675,284 times
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Alos a hour or aso a week I summer mostly does compare with other cost versus effectiveness in pollution. just fireplaces alone in winter can be much more of a problem even to breathing in winter when a lot of them.Tha'st to say nothing of oil burning furnaces.
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:35 PM
 
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Mack - Residential home owner market -- maybe... But commercial lawn service... nope. Not yet. And remember, I am a big alt. tech guy. I still want to see longer battery warranties and how long they last on average. A 2 yr. warranty is squat if you have to pay big bucks to replace the battery between years 2 and 3. And you know the battery is not "universal" so in 3-4 years you won't be able to find it - making the mower useless...

Lowes and Home Depot by me have 3 battery lawn mowers and 100 gas powered ones. So while it is a start, they are hardly taking over just yet.

I hope you are right that in 10 years you won't be able to find a new gas powered lawnmower, because the tech in that area has made it impracticable to even think about a gas powered mower.
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