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Old 04-29-2014, 08:26 PM
 
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The strike by mass transit workers for BART (California's Bay Area Rapid Transit) caused more people to drive their cars to work and for other trips they'd normally use BART for. According to various sources, the additional vehicle driving caused about 21 million tons of additional pollution to be generated.

Not one environmental or greener group came forward to make more than a token protest about it.

If a company were to have produced an additional 21 million tons of pollution, it would the bad bad bad corporation, the irresponsible business this and that. Fines would be levied, new regulations floated, investigations started and hearings conducted.

Someone would have had to pay a lot of money, one way or another.

On this issue, not a word other than some websites posting a page. No one was held accountable for the direct result of the strike.

Last edited by Mack Knife; 04-29-2014 at 08:50 PM..
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:18 PM
 
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So now we blame union workers for pollution
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Old 04-30-2014, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Volcano
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
The strike by mass transit workers for BART (California's Bay Area Rapid Transit) caused more people to drive their cars to work and for other trips they'd normally use BART for. According to various sources, the additional vehicle driving caused about 21 million tons of additional pollution to be generated.
And Ohmigard, what about that big forest fire a couple of months later. In San Jose air pollution levels were three times the danger level. This is an outrage! Why was THIS not protested? Somebody needs to pay!

http://www.mercurynews.com/science/c...area-fires-dry
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
So now we blame union workers for pollution
Okay, what was the root cause of the pollution?
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:39 AM
 
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BTW, Opend you are on my ignore list, I never even see the contents of your posts anymore. A clue.
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Old 04-30-2014, 11:32 AM
 
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"According to various sources, the additional vehicle driving caused about 21 million tons of additional pollution to be generated."

Some quick checking:
BART STRIKE HAVING COSTLY ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT ON BAY AREA - Bay Area Council
"The Bay Area Council used traffic and emissions data from the Texas Transportation Institute to develop its estimates. The 16.2 million pounds of additional carbon being generated as a result of the strike is equal to the weight of 267 BART cars or almost 7.4 metric tons."

The strike by BART union workers is having a costly environmental impact on the Bay Area, according to data assembled by the Bay Area Council that shows increased traffic congestion is generating almost 16 million pounds of carbon, and wasting almost 800,000 gallons of gas every day at a cost of almost $3.3 million.


http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancis...nt?oid=2729689

Fiscal year 2013 had the highest ridership in BART history, although the regional system is not growing as fast as it did in the past two years, according to spokesman Jim Allison. The average weekday ridership for February was 398,669, a 1 percent increase from February 2013. Excluding the 8½ strike days over two separate occasions, the average weekday boardings for this fiscal year “will likely be higher,†Allison said.


BART has 104 miles of trackage and four main legs going into downtown. Source:
System Facts | bart.gov

OK, now for some third grade math.
400,000 tickets are sold per day. I'm going to make the staggering leap of faith and suggest that people not only ride BART to work, but back home from work! That means that about 200,000 people are involved - ergo somewhere around 200,000 cars if no one shares rides. 800,000 gallons of gas per day. 4 gallons per car. With four legs of +-25 miles each, if each commuter got on at the end of a leg, the car to replace BART would have to go about 50 miles. That is an average MPG of 12.5. Considering that a lot live closer in and don't go the full distance, and many would car pool during a strike, that means the cars in San Fransisco only get about 8 MPG! Clearly the solution is for these people to buy cars with better gas mileage!

16 million pounds of carbon. Wow, that is a lot! A gallon of gasoline (octane) only weighs about six pounds. 6 x 800,000 = 4,800,000 pounds (aka 4 million pounds. But wait! There's more. The amount of carbon in a gallon of gasoline is only five pounds. That means there are only 4 million pounds of carbon available. (All this of course assumes that the BART system is powered by fairy dust and has no carbon footprint of its own.)

So how do we get the 16 million pounds of carbon? Well, the first part of the answer is that someone conveniently (wink wink, nudge nudge) dropped the "dioxide." Only 27% of the weight of carbon dioxide is carbon. The rest is oxygen. When impressing the gullible big figures make big impressions, so saying 19 pounds of CO2 per gallon of gasoline is impressive. Our 4 million pounds can suddenly become roughly 14.8 million and we'll nudge it up a bit to call it 16 million because nobody is going to check it, right? Calling the oxygen bound up in CO2 as a pollutant simple because it adds mass is akin to saying "My 5 pound bag of garbage just had 13 pounds of diamonds added to it, I now have 18 pounds of garbage."

The point of such figures is as a public opinion tool for forcing an end to a strike. They have NOTHING to do with reality.

In reality, if you took the 4 million pounds of carbon figure and divided it by about 3, you might get a real figure of 1.3 million pounds of additional carbon burned per day as a result of the strike, 8 day strike, maybe a total of 10 million lbs.

The bottom line is still that MASS transit is a 19th and 20th century concept that is outmoded and outdated. Far greater saving could be had with a modern INDIVIDUAL transit system based on current technologies.
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:03 PM
 
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Perhaps you should work for the EPA since nothing is as bad as it seems. Heck, why bother with electric cars since the pollutants aren't all that bad anyway? I sure hope Tesla doesn't find that post or they'll have to close up shop in a hurry.

Lots of people live farther away which is why they often take BART. The people that live much closer take the bus. You'd know that if most everything you said wasn't an assumption but you know how assumptions go.

The strikes are over btw and have been for some time.

Most did not car pool during the strike. Car pools rely heavily one a group of people with compatible schedules that are in close enough proximity to each other to make it work. The days of people standing on street corners to car pool have mostly passed. A lot of people did take the buses that sat in traffic for extended period of time. Those where older diesels that aren't usually put in service. We can assume why but that would be yet another assumption.

Based on your math, the EPA had really better get with it. They are missing out on a huge opportunity to educate the public and gets the facts straight, pollution from cars isn't as bad as everyone thinks it is.

Musk, are you listening?
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:04 PM
 
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BTW, I bolded TONS, because there is a HECK of a lot of difference between 21,000,000 tons (roughly 42,000,000,000 lbs) and 16,200,000 pounds. In addition to inflation by calling oxygen a pollutant when it is near carbon, we have another inflation by using incorrect units of measurement. Is it any wonder that people say that environmentalists lie and scream doom and gloom based upon false figures?
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:17 PM
 
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"Most did not car pool during the strike. Car pools rely heavily one a group of people with compatible schedules that are in close enough proximity to each other to make it work. The days of people standing on street corners to car pool have mostly passed."

You re-state my primary point of the whole post. "The bottom line is still that MASS transit is a 19th and 20th century concept that is outmoded and outdated. Far greater saving could be had with a modern INDIVIDUAL transit system based on current technologies." Chickpea Soup: High speed passenger rail

As for assumptions, you can rest assured that no politician was out there saying "We need hard data on this. Mary Joe, John, office staff, get out there and follow these 200,000 +- people." They operated on assumptions, assumptions conveniently skewed in their favor.

My comment about the 5lb amount of carbon in gasoline is fact, pure and simple. The 19 pound figure used by the EPA has been explained by the EPA and there is even a Slate article that steps through it based on the help of an EPA employee. I made no extraneous comment about the pollution from cars being better or worse. I just hate it when people and governments lie to me, and when presented with data that shows the smoke and mirrors to be smoke and mirrors have to resort to further deflection in the hopes that no one else will notice.
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Old 04-30-2014, 02:06 PM
 
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I wonder, since the OP is so affronted about the additional pollution caused by the strike I guess he/she/it is also for making every day a holiday...

Hardly anyone driving to work, mass transit utilizing 1/5th it's normal operating capacity. Think of the huge amount of electricity saved.

But no, lets pick on people who want to be paid a fair wage for a days work...
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