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Old 07-21-2014, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,919,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I'd like to see a true cost analysis. Cost of the vehicle, cost of generating the electricity for said vehicle and cost of disposal of the batteries after the car is no longer in service.

How about the recycling of batteries, or even the re-purposing of them as industrial UPS devices, as Chevy is doing with Volt batteries?



The environmental costs just aren't that bad.
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Old 07-21-2014, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,542,360 times
Reputation: 10573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
How about the recycling of batteries, or even the re-purposing of them as industrial UPS devices, as Chevy is doing with Volt batteries? The environmental costs just aren't that bad.
Interesting idea, and I think billionaire genius Elon Musk is already on the case. Besides starting and running Tesla Motors, he also started and runs SpaceX, which just successfully delivered a cargo shipment to the International Space Station, as well as SolarCity, one of the largest installer of solar PV panels in the US, which is a co-party to his Gigabattery factory plans. One of their areas of interest is supplying energy storage systems to buffer the supply/demand cycle from renewable energy systems.

Batteries for EVs are one of the most demanding applications, and Tesla will replace under warranty their batteries if they fall below 70% of rated capacity. But apparently at that stage they still have the potential to provide years more service in less demanding applications where weight versus storage capacity is not a critical factor, the way it is in cars.

And then, whenever the batteries are no longer useful, they'll be shipped back to the Gigabattery factory for recycling.
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Old 07-22-2014, 08:59 PM
 
981 posts, read 1,968,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHDave View Post
The driver didn't pay for recharges but someone did, I fail to see how this is any different than someone making the same trip in a normal car and arranging for other people to buy his fuel.
Major heat inefficiency in gas & diesel engines renders them more expensive to run than electricity. That's a point that keeps getting lost, though it takes a certain scale of charging infrastructure to make it practical.

My main concern with electric vehicles is for apartment dwellers and others who will have their charging gear exposed to vandalism, switching theft, etc. I've seen locking cords but I like the idea of parking over a wireless transmitter if those can be made more lossless.
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Old 07-22-2014, 09:03 PM
 
981 posts, read 1,968,940 times
Reputation: 1398
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
Interesting idea, and I think billionaire genius Elon Musk is already on the case. Besides starting and running Tesla Motors, he also started and runs SpaceX, which just successfully delivered a cargo shipment to the International Space Station, as well as SolarCity, one of the largest installer of solar PV panels in the US, which is a co-party to his Gigabattery factory plans. One of their areas of interest is supplying energy storage systems to buffer the supply/demand cycle from renewable energy systems.

Batteries for EVs are one of the most demanding applications, and Tesla will replace under warranty their batteries if they fall below 70% of rated capacity. But apparently at that stage they still have the potential to provide years more service in less demanding applications where weight versus storage capacity is not a critical factor, the way it is in cars.

And then, whenever the batteries are no longer useful, they'll be shipped back to the Gigabattery factory for recycling.
Mr. Musk is truly admirable from everything I've seen. I hope some personal scandal (like a GOP bimbo plant) doesn't taint him, as with many famous figures. Keep it on the up-and-up and keep up the good work!

Recycling batteries will help silence GOP crocodile tears over their environmental impact. They never cared about billions of small individual batteries that get thrown away. Same goes for their fake concern over the mercury in CFCs vs endless excuses for coal mercury, a major source of fish contamination.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,542,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_north View Post
Mr. Musk is truly admirable from everything I've seen. I hope some personal scandal (like a GOP bimbo plant) doesn't taint him, as with many famous figures. Keep it on the up-and-up and keep up the good work!
Elon Musk has just done something that enhances my opinion of him even further. He's personally donating $1,000,000 to help create a museum to the memory of Nikolai Tesla, the genius who invented the AC generator that made George Westinghouse a wealthy man, and who invented the brushless AC motor that paved the way for the development of Tesla Motors' drivetrain.

And all this came about because he took the time to write a personal note to a cartoonist who likes his car, and then followed up on that communication.

Quote:
Billionaire Elon Musk giving $1M to New York museum preserving legacy of inventor Nikola Tesla

SHOREHAM, N.Y. (AP) — The billionaire owner of Tesla Motors is giving $1 million to a New York museum dedicated to preserving the legacy of the inventor who inspired its name.

The Tesla Science Center announced Elon Musk's donation on what would have been Nikola Tesla's 158th birthday.

Billionaire Elon Musk giving $1M to Tesla museum - US News
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:29 PM
 
24,503 posts, read 35,336,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAllenDoudna View Post
I would imagine most companies would do that if you are willing to buy one car for the price of two or three cars.
Which company does this? And what about the more reasonable pricing instead of the outrageous two to three times the price of a comparable car? Since the Tesla S is not that high to a comparable car, it's not fair to hold traditional cars to that standard.
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:39 PM
 
24,503 posts, read 35,336,300 times
Reputation: 12810
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAllenDoudna View Post
You realize that batteries wear out after a few years and then they are toxic waste that is quite expenssive to dispose of, don't you?

Wind turbines kill birds--or haven't you heard about that? And anybody with an ounce of sense realizes that wind is a fickle thing that sometimes blows and sometimes doesn't and it may be 5 miles and hour one day and 50 miles an hour the next. Surely you realize these will generate vastly differing amounts of electricity, do you not? Have you not heard that wind farms are banned from many otherwise suitable locations because people find them so unsightly? The Kennedys, for instance, banned a windfarm near Martha's Vineyard because it would ruin a view they enjoyed.

Solar farms block sunlight from reaching green plants and so lessen their ability to scrub CO2 from the air.

I explained the objections to hydroelectric power: habitat on land is flooded and destroyed behind the dam, and in front of the dam the natural rhythums caused by the rising and falling of the river disrupt habitat as does the blockage of silt that once washed down and brought nutients to the land downstream. You just try proposing another dam and see what sort of objections the Environmental community raises. Anyway, we've pretty much dammed all the locations favorable to damming so hydro power is a dead end.

I'm actually quite a fan of Alternative Energy, but anybody who thinks there aren't some drawbacks--serious ones--has only heard about the candy and ice cream and not the tummy ache that follows.
There's a lot of inaccurate statements in this post.

1. Batteries last for decades. Even older technology batteries such as the ones used in the original Prius only had to be replaced .5% of the time (to date) due to wearing out and/or manufacturer defects.

2. Wind turbines kill birds but the total impact on life is minimal compared to carbon based energy production.

3. Solar farms are generally in areas where trees don't grow (deserts). My solar panels are on a roof where I otherwise would not grow plants and trees.

4. Most dams were created for other reasons than to generate power. Power generation was added later on.
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