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Old 09-17-2014, 11:38 AM
 
7,280 posts, read 10,890,327 times
Reputation: 11491

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The greeners got plastic bag laws passed so it is spreading like wild fire.

They forgot one thing: all year long the stores are selling plastic trash bags, leaf bags, contractor waste bags and so on.

What do people do with their lawn and garden waste? Well, they put it into plastic bags. Should they? No but guess what they actually do? If they weren't doing this then why are places like Home Depot and Lowes and every other home improvement store selling tons of plastic bags?

Once again, the lack of any foresight and planning on the part of do-gooders made sure yet another law and accompanying regulations made the environmentalists feel good but actually accomplished very little.

They got duped by the companies funding the efforts. What was accomplished? Not much other than stores now charging for any type of bag to carry out the very things you pay them for. The plastic bag laws only served to allow stores to charge you for something else.

Proof? Go to a Home Depot or Lowes and watch as some people buy PLASTIC lawn and garden bags and then put them into recyclable bags to carry them to the car. Hello?
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:50 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,105 posts, read 80,205,776 times
Reputation: 56947
Yes, that's a very good observation. While our city still allows plastic bags the bigger city next to us has banned them and we have to use our own bags. Now I'm thinking it would be fun to use plastic kitchen trash bags to carry my groceries. We buy those and the 33 gallon ones for the big garbage can at Costco but we do see people at Home Depot buy a box of them and bring a nice cloth bag for their smaller items. We also notice that people have to buy small plastic bags to pick up their dog walking poop there now, since they no longer have the grocery bags for that purpose.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:57 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,948,800 times
Reputation: 3572
One problem at a time.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:51 PM
 
7,280 posts, read 10,890,327 times
Reputation: 11491
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
One problem at a time.
One problem at a time is the very reason the problem exists in the first place.

Instead of addressing the real problem, supporting the idea of making recyclable plastic bags, the do-gooders simply ban plastic bags. Just how does that solve the problem? It just creates new problems.

That is the way the do-gooders work though, instead of fixing things, create yet new problems so that the few are enriched so they can continue "the process" of one problem at a time. They don't really want to solve problems, they love the process.

One problem at a time is how we ended up with most of the serious problem we have. Trusting the one problem at a time people only insures there will be an endless supply of problems, most of them created by the one problem at a time people.

The solution was recyclable plastic bags, not banning them. The solution was new packaging methods that allow for easy carry of products. The solution was using some brain power instead of control power.

When was the last time the one problem at a time people ever solved a problem that didn't create a multitude of new problems? Name one time.

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Old 09-18-2014, 02:19 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,948,800 times
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Removing plastic bag from the waste stream around here is a trash, not environmental problem. Removing them from the stream doesn't affect other plastic bags one way or the other. We aren't in a serious problem with waste disposal anyway and cutting out plastic bags isn't going to affect our consumption of crude oil. Plastic is made from byproducts.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge
2,420 posts, read 3,830,170 times
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I use the grocery store plastic bags as trash can liners at my house. When these are no longer available it won't be a big deal for me. I don't use plastic trash/leaf bags because we have a curbside recycling program here in my So Cal city. I started using the fabric tote/carry bags at the beginning of the year with no problem or inconvenience to me. I sometimes take one or two plastic bags from the bagging area and when these get banned I will no longer be able to. No big deal.

If every town and city in the U.S. had a curbside recycling program or some other kind of recycling program plastic bags wouldn't be an issue. Recycling would eliminate the need to have plastic trash/leaf bags all together (e.g. trash bin, green bin, recycling bin). Since grocery plastic bags out number the usage of the plastic trash bags BY A SUPER WIDE MARGIN these are being banned first in many states and municipalities.

I'm an avid runner and cyclist and I can't believe all of the grocery store plastic bags that I see laying around as I pass by empty lots, on the streets, parking lots, etc. Not to mention plastic bottles and aluminum cans. I started picking up aluminum cans on my long bicycle rides. I might as well get paid for riding. Very rarely I see large plastic trash/leaf bags in these spots I mentioned. I can understand the need to ban grocery store bags.

-Cheers.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn New York
18,364 posts, read 31,448,743 times
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i think we need to get rid of the plastic water bottles. they are everywhere
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,274,821 times
Reputation: 10755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
The greeners got plastic bag laws passed so it is spreading like wild fire.
Who are the "greeners" exactly? You keep using that label, which apparently means something to you, but I've never heard anyone else use it. Do you mean like, people who are interested in Green Living, which is the topic of this forum? If you aren't personally interested in promoting an ecologically sound life, but just want to attack what others do, why do you keep posting here?

Quote:
They forgot one thing: all year long the stores are selling plastic trash bags, leaf bags, contractor waste bags and so on.
No, they didn't forget those. They just realized that the misuse of the ubiquitous flimsy, gallon sized plastic shopping bags had gotten out of control. Studies show that more than 90% of those bags are not reused in any way, but are simply discarded and wind up in landfills. Bags which are purchased are self moderating, because they cost money, versus those "free" bags that people essentially regard as having no value.

Quote:
What do people do with their lawn and garden waste? Well, they put it into plastic bags. Should they? No but guess what they actually do? If they weren't doing this then why are places like Home Depot and Lowes and every other home improvement store selling tons of plastic bags?
The best solution is actually the big bins for compostable waste that "greener" communities are using now as part of their garbage collection process. No bags are required at all. And for overflow, Home Depot and Lowes and every other home improvement store also carries large paper lawn waste bags for the purpose, which do compost down.

Quote:
Once again, the lack of any foresight and planning on the part of do-gooders made sure yet another law and accompanying regulations made the environmentalists feel good but actually accomplished very little.
Says you, but in cities where the ban has passed, people are able to see an improvement fairly quickly, as the number of plastic bags snagged in trees and fences, and blowing in the wind decreases sharply... and that's without even seeing the improvements in what is going on at the dump.

Quote:
They got duped by the companies funding the efforts. What was accomplished? Not much other than stores now charging for any type of bag to carry out the very things you pay them for. The plastic bag laws only served to allow stores to charge you for something else.
Or, you can get with the program and buy reusable bags, which are superior to the throwaway bags in virtually every way. They carry more, they're stronger, they have far better handles, and in addition... you can use them over and over, which conserves resources, a key tenant of GREEN LIVING.

Quote:
Proof? Go to a Home Depot or Lowes and watch as some people buy PLASTIC lawn and garden bags and then put them into recyclable bags to carry them to the car. Hello?
Hello, some people got the message about reusable shopping bags. How come you didn't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
One problem at a time is the very reason the problem exists in the first place.Instead of addressing the real problem, supporting the idea of making recyclable plastic bags, the do-gooders simply ban plastic bags. Just how does that solve the problem? It just creates new problems.
How much long range planning do you think went into the USE of throwaway plastic bags in the first place? None. They were simply offered to merchants as a cheaper alternative to paper bags.

Quote:
That is the way the do-gooders work though, instead of fixing things, create yet new problems so that the few are enriched so they can continue "the process" of one problem at a time. They don't really want to solve problems, they love the process.
I haven't seen any evidence of that, and you haven't offered any proof, so I'll just write this off as gassbaggery, merely some guy's unsupported opinion. As opposed to something real.

Quote:
The solution was recyclable plastic bags, not banning them. The solution was new packaging methods that allow for easy carry of products. The solution was using some brain power instead of control power.
The problem with your bias is that it ignores the actual facts... researchers all over the world have been trying to develop an equivalent to the cheap, flimsy throwaway plastic bags for years, but nobody has cracked the code yet, or we'd have them. Better packaging methods for 100 small grocery items of various shapes and sizes besides putting them in big bags with handles on them? By all means, show us mere mortals how to do that, since nobody else seems to be able to solve the equation.

Sometimes government action is needed to correct problems that market factors can't. And this is one of them.
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Old 09-18-2014, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Location: Location
6,727 posts, read 9,893,774 times
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In my town, the recycling truck will only accept yard waste/leaves in brown paper lawn and leaf bags. I buy them at the local supermarket - five in a pack for $2.00

As for grocery bags, I can't remember the last time I was asked, "Paper or plastic?" Wish they would. I take my own bags (most of the time).

But I admit to using large plastic contractor bags to line my trash can. If I don't, the squirrels have actually eaten through two cans to get at the contents. The heavy plastic keeps the odor down and the squirrels have made a run for somewhere else.

Plastic water bottles are a problem. I have a refillable bottle which I use all the time. Is that so hard?

No dog, so no problem picking up the land mines, except when some neighborhood schlump lets Rover out after dark sans leash and my yard becomes the doggy donniker. Then I deploy the sandwich bag.
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Old 09-18-2014, 04:21 PM
 
18,082 posts, read 18,688,177 times
Reputation: 25191
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcrawler View Post
i think we need to get rid of the plastic water bottles. they are everywhere
What would they sell water in then?

What about products like cola?
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