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Old 10-06-2014, 10:55 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,832,318 times
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In NC, solar power becoming more about corporate finances than energy | Other Views | NewsObserver.com

This simple can't be true. More tax payer money down the drain in the name of the environment.
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:18 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,536,189 times
Reputation: 10573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
In NC, solar power becoming more about corporate finances than energy | Other Views | NewsObserver.com

This simple can't be true. More tax payer money down the drain in the name of the environment.
That isn't what it says. If you read this opinion piece carefully it's simply making a case for diversifying the portfolio of environmentally sound energy investments. So he's calling for a course correction around policies for large scale solar developments to leave more incentives free to stimulate other programs. And clearly he's not talking about private, residential solar installations.

Quote:
We must change our energy policy and embrace sustainable technologies that benefit our environment and our economy. Senate Bill 3 was a good start, but we need to recognize its shortcomings and address them soon to achieve the change we need.

In NC, solar power becoming more about corporate finances than energy | Other Views | NewsObserver.com
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
2,761 posts, read 2,358,246 times
Reputation: 4809
LOL... our company has invested thousands upon thousands of dollars to replace fluorescent lighting and other non-sustainable lighting with LED lighting. The cost upfront is of course high but when you're kWh savings by doing this will be in the millions.... we'll make that money back and save in no time. What's wrong with that?

We're also set to install a food digester in our employee feeding area. This will eliminate food waste going into our trash compactor by a minimum of 20%. Less waste going into the landfill... and more money we will save by having our trash hauler coming less frequently.

Win/win for everyone... doing things to make our company greener, helping the environment even if it's a little bit, and putting tons of money back in our pocket. How dare we!
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Old 10-08-2014, 04:20 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,832,318 times
Reputation: 11419
Quote:
Originally Posted by psurangers11 View Post
LOL... our company has invested thousands upon thousands of dollars to replace fluorescent lighting and other non-sustainable lighting with LED lighting. The cost upfront is of course high but when you're kWh savings by doing this will be in the millions.... we'll make that money back and save in no time. What's wrong with that?

We're also set to install a food digester in our employee feeding area. This will eliminate food waste going into our trash compactor by a minimum of 20%. Less waste going into the landfill... and more money we will save by having our trash hauler coming less frequently.

Win/win for everyone... doing things to make our company greener, helping the environment even if it's a little bit, and putting tons of money back in our pocket. How dare we!
Better think again.

The rage was recyclable fluorescent just a couple of years ago when everyone knew LEDs were in the pipeline. Billions were given away in tax credits to change over to them.

You have it wrong. It isn't that ALL the initiatives are solely for money reaping, there are some very good ideas and things going on. Yes, some are win-win.

Most are not win-win, they are win-pay as in you paying and someone else winning.

Now, just how many thousands upon thousands did your company invest in fluorescent (the newer type) only to replace them with LEDs before their useful life expired?

BTW, LEDs don't save nearly as much in an upgrade from fluorescent as from incandescent to fluorescent or to led.
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Old 10-08-2014, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,536,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
The rage was recyclable fluorescent just a couple of years ago when everyone knew LEDs were in the pipeline. Billions were given away in tax credits to change over to them.
Sure, everybody "knew" the LEDs were coming, hopefully, but nobody knew when, nor what it would cost, nor even IF, for certain. Meanwhile there was a lot of pressure to lower oil imports by increasing energy efficiency, and switching to more efficient lighting that used less energy was a certain way to do that.

Quote:
Now, just how many thousands upon thousands did your company invest in fluorescent (the newer type) only to replace them with LEDs before their useful life expired?
Hindsight, as the old saying goes, is 20/20. Still, I doubt anybody lost money as a result, because the energy savings on the fluorescent were large enough to to give fairly rapid payback on the change.

Quote:
BTW, LEDs don't save nearly as much in an upgrade from fluorescent as from incandescent to fluorescent or to led.
No, not as much, they only save HALF the energy that fluorescents use, while providing better quality light.

Still, any competent Operations Manager can easily figure out when the Investment vs Savings curves cross to provide the best financial return. It's not hard.

Last edited by OpenD; 10-08-2014 at 09:24 PM..
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Old 10-09-2014, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
2,761 posts, read 2,358,246 times
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Quote:
Now, just how many thousands upon thousands did your company invest in fluorescent (the newer type) only to replace them with LEDs before their useful life expired?
Recycling all of our fluorescent lighting even if they were still good working lamps still made sense.... considering the kWh savings for the change outs will be in the MILLIONS... so we're not only making that money back but we're saving lots more. PLUS... our electric company amongst many others nationwide offer rebate programs for businesses to make such changes, and the rebates we receive from that is in the tens of thousands.

But hey..... I get it.. you're never wrong..... you know all and the rest of us are clueless. Good for you Mack
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Old 10-09-2014, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,536,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psurangers11 View Post
But hey..... I get it.. you're never wrong..... you know all and the rest of us are clueless. Good for you Mack
Exactly.

Heh. I can picture him now, fingers in ears, going "Lalalalalalala, I can't HEAR you!"
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:25 AM
 
4,718 posts, read 8,941,768 times
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There is also another savings in the way of peak demand. Less overall KW demand means that the power company doesn't have to switch over to backups to keep up with demand. Some areas have net metering, in that, you are also charged depending on the highest KW you needed during the month. that makes the payback all the sooner.

Power company backups are usually the "dirtier" types of power generation as well, such as older fuel oil or coal plants. At least FPLs used to be. Granted, they finally demolished the one by my old house in South Miami-Dade County.

FWIW, for me right now, I am still buying CFLs to replace failed CFLs. LEDS for the most part are too much money up front for me right now.

Good for your company, psurangers11- I applaud their forward thinking.
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Old 01-14-2015, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
2,761 posts, read 2,358,246 times
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Hi all... just wanted to re-visit this thread because I discussed that we were installing a food digester in our employee feeding area and WOW it's been a good success so far!

We're one month into it and it's working like a charm and I even get weekly reports on how much weight is being processed through each day!

So far we're diverting roughly ONE TON of food per week from the landfill and through the machine... which simply grinds up the food with these "bio-enzymes" (don't remember the technical term of the solution) and it turns it into grey water which simply is drained down our pipes, which is completely safe.

So... every little bit counts! Plus we save a little more money because there are less hauls for our hauling company! Less hauls + less tonnage going to landfill = money back into our pockets as well!

=)
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Old 01-15-2015, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Central Atlantic Region, though consults worldwide
266 posts, read 316,231 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
In NC, solar power becoming more about corporate finances than energy | Other Views | NewsObserver.com

This simple can't be true. More tax payer money down the drain in the name of the environment.
Just a collection of thoughts on the subject...

I agree with OpenD.

However, Mack Knife I tend to think general public frustration(s) lay is with the degree of subsidies. Few will argue against solar being a good idea for all to benefit.

Utility infrastructure, in the larger picture is failing - err has been failing. As a nation we are not properly poise to create new generating systems that are not attuned to, well, Green. Clean coal for instance has promise though only a few systems are able to economically afford all that which is required for those stations. Coal otherwise has its problems because higher btu, lower sulfur coal is becoming more expensive. Its another two steps forward, one step back situation.

I have been in the biz serving all level of institution and industry for 30+ years. New generating capacity is much needed because there are more people that need electricity. What has failed, though gaining ground, is engaging effective conservation strategies with what is already available -- all in an effort to prevent additional grid loading. When wise, truly effective conservation appointments exceed critical mass across the board only then will older inefficient generating systems capacities be phased out as solar, wind, geothermal production, etc to become become more promenant.

I mean no offense, however if we all were more responsible so as to minimize our respective footprints government would not need to act as to protect its utility possessions and the tiered taxes therefrom.

If you don't agree with Green or government intervention, I understand. However, Green, like it or not, is a new global industry. America especially has lost many manufacturing jobs and technologies to overseas economies. Frankly, America has now choice but to embrace a Green economy for such jobs are attuned to taking care of ourselves, here and now. Such jobs cannot be transplanted elsewhere.

Keep up the good works. I do enjoy your posts.
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