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Old 10-17-2014, 04:18 PM
 
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Electric-Vehicle Owners Get Charged Up Over Charging-Station Manners - Lauren Goode - News - AllThingsD

It had to happen sooner or later.

As the sales of EVs outpace the availability of charging stations, will this be more typical? It seems perhaps it already is.
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Old 10-17-2014, 04:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
Electric-Vehicle Owners Get Charged Up Over Charging-Station Manners - Lauren Goode - News - AllThingsD

It had to happen sooner or later.

As the sales of EVs outpace the availability of charging stations, will this be more typical? It seems perhaps it already is.
What had to happen? Poor manners?
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
What had to happen? Poor manners?
I think is more like what happens when something has more demand that supply. The one thing that wasn't brought up in the article is what happens when someone plugs into a public available charging station, leaves their car there even after it is finished charging. Since there are limited charging stations it would seem that leaving the car sitting there while others could be charging wastes the resource.

You would think that people concerned with resource management would move their EV as soon as it was finished charging.

The other thing that is interesting is that one person had an app that notified them their car was unplugged. A great idea but it also created an instant concern.

You can't really fuel a gas car and leave it unattended, this is possible though with a EV. Will we have lots of people going after limited charging locations and then monitoring their apps to see if someone unplugged them?

What about the person who has a half charge or 3/4 charge and wants to top off while the other person is about empty? Does the first get to leave their car unattended after their car is fully charged?

Lots of questions are starting to come up as pointed out in the article.

Last edited by Mack Knife; 10-17-2014 at 05:58 PM..
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Old 10-18-2014, 06:05 AM
 
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There is a simple solution for this, charge by the minute you are occupying the charging space.
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Old 10-18-2014, 05:42 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
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Whats really frustrating is when that nice convenient level 2 charger at the Home Depot is iced by a beat up Excursion.
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Old 10-18-2014, 05:44 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
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Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
There is a simple solution for this, charge by the minute you are occupying the charging space.
This
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Old 10-19-2014, 11:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
There is a simple solution for this, charge by the minute you are occupying the charging space.
That would do it but what are the chances this will happen? The fee would have to be rather high or it would just be a minor inconvenience. The person driving a $100,000+ EV could probably care less about such a fee even if they scream about a higher rate for electricity itself.

The individual who buys a car at that price isn't concerned with what it costs (if you have to think about costs you don't buy a Mercedes, Porsche or Ferrari). I think it becomes a principle thing. By golly, I won't be fleeced for a few more cents on electric but a fee for parking? So what?

If EVs become far more prevalent a lot of other issues will be brought to the forefront. The answers are never as simple as we think they are. Well, actually they are, it is the unwillingness of those writing laws and regulations and think otherwise.
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
That would do it but what are the chances this will happen? The fee would have to be rather high or it would just be a minor inconvenience.
If charging a flat fee to occupy the space doesn't work you mve onto something else. If you're the guy getting paid to charge cars you're going to want to move them out as quickly as possible and keep all your customers happy. You could for example charge a regular fee as the car is charging, give them a grace period of say 10 minutes and begin charging double or triple if they are taking up the space without charging.

If people are still hogging the space the guy charging cars is making a lot of money which he can invest in more charging stations.
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Old 10-20-2014, 10:24 AM
 
7,281 posts, read 9,606,833 times
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Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
If charging a flat fee to occupy the space doesn't work you mve onto something else. If you're the guy getting paid to charge cars you're going to want to move them out as quickly as possible and keep all your customers happy. You could for example charge a regular fee as the car is charging, give them a grace period of say 10 minutes and begin charging double or triple if they are taking up the space without charging.

If people are still hogging the space the guy charging cars is making a lot of money which he can invest in more charging stations.
How is that guy moving cars going to get paid? If the price of electricity isn't increased substantially, just who is going to be there to move cars?

You say that from the extra money made the guy can buy more chargers. That doesn't solve any problem, it just creates a new one. Once all slots have chargers the price to charge simply goes up right? Because the parking is saturated with chargers, everyone is now plugged in but how many are going to move out of the space? So the effective rate paid to charge goes up in your scenario.

Then think about installing those chargers. Ever seen the inside of a garage? They aren't built for easy installation of electricity to every space. The few that exist were put in at huge costs. The idea that for a couple thousand dollars someone is going to buy a charger and plug it in doesn't make sense. Plug it in where and to what?

The operator of a private garage is going to take the extra money and piecemeal in new chargers? If not, what happens in the meantime?

If you give someone a limited time to park and after that increase the price they pay, isn't that the same as increasing the cost to charge? You can cut it ten different ways but the amount you pay is the cost to charge.

It is relatively easy to say you try that and if it doesn't work you move onto something else. Just how many decades of trial and error are we talking about? 10 years, 20? Maybe just 5? Changing large systems isn't something that happens quickly or can be accomplished at a whim.

Take the idea of flat fee to occupy space. Every see what happens in a city that changes their way of charging for parking? Take San Francisco for example. They put in new meters all over the city so that people can use credit cards or even pay by phone. Sunday is supposed to be a free park day, partly because it helps businesses and tourism. Guess what happened? Yes, through a miracle of planning they forgot to change the standard criteria for collecting payment so that people are still charged to parking in Sundays. Not some small sum is collected, it is to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. So we chalk it up to a mistake. Uh huh. This is just a small example and somehow we can just move onto something else if flat rate parking doesn't work?

All the ideas are fine until someone asks how it works. Then the answer is that if it doesn't work, try something else. We tried gasoline and look what happened. According to some, we've poisoned the atmosphere and are slowly choking ourselves and the planet to death. I accept that as fact but is more trial and error really the way to go about trying to solve that problem?

It looks like California is going to solve the problem for you. They are moving to a pay per mile driven tax.

Now how does that work when EVs pay the same amount to drive as ICE? Remember, many cars now come with "free" maintenance so that isn't really a big factor and ICE vehicles are less expensive to start with. Suddenly, it costs more to drive that EV 100 miles than the ICE car.

Pay by mile driven is another experiment but it is going to happen. Effectively, your cost to charge an EV will exceed that to fuel a gas car.
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Old 10-20-2014, 12:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
How is that guy moving cars going to get paid?
When I said move them I meant get them moving along by themselves. You can do that by charging to occupy the space.


Quote:
If the price of electricity isn't increased substantially, just who is going to be there to move cars?
There is solutions to any problem, as I suggested you increase the cost to occupy the space if you aren't charging the vehicle. This way you are only penalizing those that are hogging the space. You keep increasing it until people no longer unnecessarily occupy the space. If you're making a pile of extra cash because rich people can care less now you have extra money to invest in more charging stations. You can slowly adjust those fees downwards as more capacity is available or the market dictates.

This isn't rocket science, it's a matter of simple economics.
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