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The means to determine how much a car sends into the atmosphere already exists. The amount s known at the time a car is manufactured and then over time with things like smog tests and so on. Yet, when one car has a higher emission rate than another, there is no peanlty to those who own such a car.
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Taxes that affect so many millions of motorists will never be politically popular enough to pass. Politicians rely on getting a majority to back them.
As far as "retiring" older most pollutive cars, this would be a real penalty to the poor. Without these cheaper vehicles, many would be reduced to pedestrian status, and they would remember who put them there when they make it to the polls.
Of course, if they don't have a car, they might not be able to make to the polls at all. If politicians make that calculation, the idea might pass.
I live in Arizona and there is essentially such a tax here for many residents, in the form of regular testing for vehicle emissions. The testing requirements and costs depend on where you live and the type and model year of your vehicle. When any car is first registered here, the owner is told if testing it required. Proof that testing was done at a state-run facility and that the car passed has to be presented before a vehicle's annual registration can be renewed. If the vehicle fails the testing, it has to be repaired and retested until it passes or the car has to be removed from the road.
I moved to Arizona nine years ago and brought a 1999 compact Chevrolet with me. I was required to have an emissions inspection and I have to retest the car every December at a cost of $12.25. I pay that on top of my annual registration fee. (In Arizona, registration fees are based on the age and value of a car and go down as the car ages.) I've driven the same vehicle the entire time I've been here. I keep up with maintenance and my car has passed the emissions testing with flying colors each year.
I think the Arizona system is an efficient one for keeping polluting vehicles off the roads and raisingmoney for the Department of Transportation.
Well, at $12.25 a pop I doubt if it's raising any money for the Dept. of Transportation. They have to pay an employee to conduct the testing and there is also test equipment to purchase.
I was surprised to note how cheap the test is in Arizona, because here in California it runs about $60, but that can vary some because privately owned test stations are licensed by the state to conduct the testing. Our test is required only every other year and I would guess it's more extensive. It requires the car to be run on a dynamometer to simulate driving at a certain speed. I assume your test is conducted only by idling the engine, or if a higher RPM test is also required, it's without any load on the engine. Is that correct?
Sorry, not seeing it in the local ads. They have a little better value but not much. For example the Honda civic is one car that keeps it value very well.
FYI that particular motor in my car is considered rock solid. You can expect 300K, my mechanic told me his one customer has one with 450K miles. Why would I spend extra money just because it's an import?
Not trying to nitpick, just trying to relay what I see in my market. Over in Chicago (+/- 500 miles) Civic's are selling for that price with 3X the mileage and 2X the age.
The idea is asinine. Auto companies manufacture their products according to government regulations. We are then forced to buy these regulated products. Youre suggesting to tax the consumer based upon the amount of pollution that regulation allows to exist. It would be more appropriate to tighten the regulations, not tax the consumer for buying the product.
Thank you. I didn't think anything good would come of this thread until I read this.
Actually, you can buy a car that does 190+ easily (199 actual), has a very good range and will appreciate in value. Its called the Dodge Challenger SRT Hellcat.
You can fill it's tank anywhere, drive it sedately for comfort or thrill yourself and everyone in it beyond belief.
$59,000 and change depending on what you want in it.
Sorry, it doesn't fit my use case. And that's not a car I would want to own under any circumstances.
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For the price of a Tesla, you can have one plus a PRIIUS or buy one and with the 40 grand left over, consider it as free gas. At the 21 mpg that means roughly 200,000 miles of driving, all for the price of a Tesla.
Or I could get a Leaf right now for under $30K, or wait and get a Tesla III for $40K and call it good. Either will do everything I want it to.
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When you're tired of it, sell it for more than you paid for it, it will have cost you just about zip to drive it. Thing is, you won't get tired of it.
Don't be so sure. I'm already tired of it. You've exhausted me just trying to deal with the fact that you don't CARE what I want and I really do not want the same things that you do, but you keep trying to convince me that I'm wrong about what I want. Really, you can just give it up. EVs don't need your business. They are doing quite fine without you.
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Originally Posted by thecoalman
Mine will do about 150 stock and it gets 18/28 mpg.
But I'm looking for a Zero Emissions Vehicle that I can charge from my solar panels on the roof, and the top speed limit here is 55 mph, so that's really no good to me.
But I'm looking for a Zero Emissions Vehicle that I can charge from my solar panels on the roof, and the top speed limit here is 55 mph, so that's really no good to me.
Are you getting the picture yet?
It was Lycos that brought up performance and if you're going to want to entice people like me to buy a an electric vehicle I want performance and there is more to that than being able to go fast. Being able to accelerate quickly is an important safety feature especially when you have an experienced driver behind the wheel. When I'm on the highway I want to be able to be able to accelerate quickly especially around where I live with these really short on ramps. As another example just recently I was going through a green light and caught a guy in the corner of my eye going through the red, I punched it. Had I been in a slower car or braked hich would have been the reaction of most people I probably would of been T-boned.
Smog checks are already a fact in some states. There is already a retirement program with money being paid to those that retire their smog cars. None of this is new and it has already been implemented, the systems exist to do it in all states.
Gas taxes only address one problem and then not every well. Gas taxes were designed to raise revenue, not care for the environment.
Paying to offset carbon footprints is a scam. That only provides the means for those that want and can afford to to avoid changing their consumption of materials and resources that create pollution. Carbon credits or whatever fancy name is used to name is all the same scam.
We can figure out a way to allow for offsetting carbon footprints but then say we can't figure out how to assess a tax on pollution? Don't look now, we just did.
If the means to calculate a carbon footprint offset exists, then either it is accurate or it isn't. It isn't accurate so then what purpose does it serve? If one person offsets their carbon footprint, the only thing that happens is that someone else has more to play with. Carbon footprint offset, carbon credits, the names are different the scam is the same.
If we can't determine how much pollution a vehicle will produce and how much was created in it's manufacture, then how can the EV makers put out claims about how little they generate in manufacturing compared to other car manufacturing? Perhaps we can agree that regardless of what they make, EV or ICE cars, they are all FOS?
The gasoline tax is already a tax on hydrocarbons. The more gasoline a car consumes, the more hydrocarbons it emits. It is already directly proportional to pollution in addition to energy.
EVs and high MPG hybrids already benefit from this system - the incentive exists already.
Perhaps what you want is a higher gasoline tax to further penalize hydrocarbon use.
EVs and hybrids are under-contributing to road maintenance though. They weigh just as much, cause just as much wear and tear on the roads - yet do not pay their fair share of taxes to maintain roads.
I have a fundamental problem though with the bolded statement above. The only purpose of taxes should be raise revenue as necessary to fund government programs. Using taxes as behavior modification tools is exactly why our tax code in all its flavors is ridiculously complex. We should all be offended that politicians manipulate the tax code to control us and make us do things the fundamental economics don't do. Mortgage deduction, child care, charity - all of those should not exist as deductions or incentives.
It was Lycos that brought up performance and if you're going to want to entice people like me to buy a an electric vehicle I want performance and there is more to that than being able to go fast. Being able to accelerate quickly is an important safety feature especially when you have an experienced driver behind the wheel. When I'm on the highway I want to be able to be able to accelerate quickly especially around where I live with these really short on ramps. As another example just recently I was going through a green light and caught a guy in the corner of my eye going through the red, I punched it. Had I been in a slower car or braked hich would have been the reaction of most people I probably would of been T-boned.
I understand, and I concur. Acceleration is more important than top speed to me. That's why it is so interesting to me that EVs like Tesla have full torque at 0 mph, and can turn in 0 - 60 in under 4 seconds.
Like I've said, one of the most innovative things Elon Musk did was to make the EV segment exciting, and that helps sell all the different brands of them.
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