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Old 11-19-2014, 08:11 AM
 
39,121 posts, read 40,471,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
but overall this issue is overblown.
I suspect that is the case but on the other hand......


Pacificorp files US lawsuit to stop government from revealing information on bird deaths to AP | Fox Business
Quote:
A wind-energy company is suing in federal court to block the government from releasing information to The Associated Press about how many birds are found dead at its facilities.

The AP sought the information from the Interior Department in March 2013 under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act. It is part of the AP's investigation into bird deaths at wind farms.
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:13 AM
 
39,121 posts, read 40,471,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow View Post
Looking out my windows right now I can see refinery stacks spewing smoke....
What you are seeing is most likely water vapor....
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Vermont
10,267 posts, read 11,141,529 times
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Rational Resistance: Which is uglier?
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Old 11-19-2014, 10:06 AM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,812,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
Which is uglier:

This:

http://ogremk5.files.wordpress.com/2...fornia_web.jpg

or this?

http://zuneydairy.files.wordpress.co...dairy-farm.jpg

It works both ways. Irrational resistance.
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Old 11-19-2014, 11:44 AM
 
5,818 posts, read 5,134,232 times
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Between air and water pollution v visual "pollution" I very definitely pick the latter. There are some wind turbines down the road from me and they don't bother me a bit. Plus, the land owners earn an income from them.

Although I agree that solar panels on existing buildings would also be good.

I sincerely doubt that our choices are "either/or", but rather, Americans will have a mixed source energy supply in the years to come.
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Old 11-19-2014, 12:12 PM
 
15,254 posts, read 16,735,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
What you are seeing is most likely water vapor....
I see two stacks, one with white "smoke" and one with gray. The prevailing wind is from the South, blowing it away, but when the wind shifts you can smell it and it's not water vapor.
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,497,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Sure, but it's understandable. In the internet - social media - viral outrage era the cost of social kneejerks can be staggering, and this issue is just made to be exploited by anti-wind energy activists.

When I worked in Chicago in the 70s, maintenance workers at The Hancock Tower used to use snow shovels each morning to scoop up the dead birds that had crashed into their windows. Researchers have been quoted as saying that thousand of birds are killed each year at McCormick Place alone. Recent efforts to reduce the deaths have included turning off the building lights during October migratory season, but still thousands are killed around the downtown area each year. There isn't a lot more that can be done.

And yet one youTube video of one unfortunate occurrence with one bird and a wind turbine can rocket around the world and potentially get the project shut down.

Meanwhile, the big picture is that the apex predators could go extinct in our lifetime, as their food supply goes extinct, due to carbon pollution induced environmental changes, if we don't reduce the use of fossil fuels sooner rather than later.

Will it be expensive, yes, but as the UN Report informed us, it won't be as expensive as trying to fix it if we pass the tipping point. And at some point, some think very soon, we could pass a point of no return and not be able to recover at all.

How much is it worth to avoid that risk?
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:42 PM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,181,935 times
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I recently saw the statistics on bird deaths.
Planes, trains, cars and trucks were a huge number, but buildings was much bigger.
Surprisingly even a bigger number than buildings was domestic cats!
Wind turbines did not even make the top 10.
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:20 PM
 
389 posts, read 483,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
I recently saw the statistics on bird deaths.
Planes, trains, cars and trucks were a huge number, but buildings was much bigger.
Surprisingly even a bigger number than buildings was domestic cats!
Wind turbines did not even make the top 10.
Excuse my species-ism, but a few less starlings or losing a fraction of a migratory flock is different than killing non-migratory slow recovering birds of prey because a wind turbine was sited at its otherwise natural home. I guess wolves and coyotes will take up the slack in eating all the mice and rabbits (much to the chagrin of ranchers). Hawks, ravens and eagles (even the silly looking whoo owl) are just too cool
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:20 PM
 
208 posts, read 279,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow View Post
Looking out my windows right now I can see refinery stacks spewing smoke and an array of wind turbines. I greatly prefer the wind turbines.
I'd probly move out of China then!
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