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Old 12-08-2014, 07:29 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,829,402 times
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"I respond to illogical, deceptive, twisted posts that misstate what they are arguing against and disregard published facts. Doesn't matter who posts them."

Than talking to yourself ought to be a hoot.
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 51,211,590 times
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All of you are ignoring the physical fact that solar energy is too diffuse and unreliable in most to our country to ever be a viable adjunct let alone a replacement for utility power.
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:19 AM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,829,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
All of you are ignoring the physical fact that solar energy is too diffuse and unreliable in most to our country to ever be a viable adjunct let alone a replacement for utility power.
Actually, I agree and have been saying that for a long time. It is OpenD who can't understand that common sense perspective.
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:39 AM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,767 posts, read 2,291,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
The green private jetset:

Al Gore
Seinfeld
Leonardo Di Caprio

The Copenhagen Climate Summit - 1200 limos, 140 private jets

The Director of Greenpeace

Are all those people on the fringe? Do tell.

Maybe its time to know just who those telling you what to think really are. Quite a few are scientists or those claiming an enlightened understanding of everything.

I agree. There should be other, cleaner means, made available for people who need to be at different places in the country periodically. Maybe some kind of cross country magnetic rail or giant pneumatic tube. The majority of people are not Al Gore or Seinfeld, thankfully. Yes, the problem of the jet set has to be addressed but one issue at a time.

And there's nothing wrong with Al Gore and Seinfeld wishing for one thing and doing another. They are not scientists and inventors. Coming up with cleaner mass forms of transportation that can take people from one side of the country to the other is not their job. It's the job of scientists and inventors and those in the business of travel, whether governmental or private. High speed, long distance travel presents a problem Al Gore and Seinfeld are not educated in the proper fields to solve. So it's not really practical to hold them responsible even if their professed views contradict their current behavior.

I mean, like you said, you are in favor of rooftop solar, right? But do you have solar panels on your roof?
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:52 AM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,829,402 times
Reputation: 11419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
I agree. There should be other, cleaner means, made available for people who need to be at different places in the country periodically. Maybe some kind of cross country magnetic rail or giant pneumatic tube. The majority of people are not Al Gore or Seinfeld, thankfully. Yes, the problem of the jet set has to be addressed but one issue at a time.

Why one thing at a time? Are you saying there is no capacity to do more than one thing at a time?

And there's nothing wrong with Al Gore and Seinfeld wishing for one thing and doing another. They are not scientists and inventors. Coming up with cleaner mass forms of transportation that can take people from one side of the country to the other is not their job. It's the job of scientists and inventors and those in the business of travel, whether governmental or private. High speed, long distance travel presents a problem Al Gore and Seinfeld are not educated in the proper fields to solve. So it's not really practical to hold them responsible even if their professed views contradict their current behavior.

There is something wrong when people have the means, ability and opportunity to do what they wish and more important tell other people how they should manage their lives and then do something else themselves. Look up what hypocrisy means.

Who do you think flew on the 140 private jets and rode in the over 1200 limos at the Copehagen Climate Change conference? Those are the same people you say have the job to know. Where were the 1200 EVs to shuttle them around? The billionaires who embrace climate change so much couldn't see to it that travel arrangements were such that the least possible impact on the climate were used? More hypocrisy.

When people say things about high speed travel, climate change and long distance travel and they expect (otherwise they would remain silent, given their public status) others to do as they say, then it is practical to hold them responsible for what they say. You're making excuses for them. If Al Gore isn't educated on what he talks about, then he should shut up because as Vice President of this country he sat and chaired committees that dealt with these issues. Are you saying he isn't competent? I would agree.


I mean, like you said, you are in favor of rooftop solar, right? But do you have solar panels on your roof?
Please, do some DD, I am off-grid for power and have roof top solar with a battery storage system, use grey water systems, recycle so much that our family can't fill the smallest trash pick bin even in two weeks, use less than 400 gallons (we use a little more than we used to a year ago) of fresh water per month. I am not a scientist but you know what? I don't sit here all day telling people what they should be doing if I am unwilling to do it myself, espouse blue sky imagination as if it is fact and going to solve problems in the real world but I walk the walk without making excuses as to why I do can't do this or that.

I don't sit here claiming that EVs are the solution to air pollution and then come up with some needs excuse as to why I don't own one myself like some other people do.

The hypocrites that come here every day to paint all the rosey pictures because they sit around doing little more for the environment than searching for the next fad that isn't going anywhere are what gives the green movement (if you call it that) a bad name. You want to know the real costs to the green movement, it is those people because they distract until you ask them what they do and then all you hear are excuses.
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Old 12-10-2014, 11:30 AM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,767 posts, read 2,291,031 times
Reputation: 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
Please, do some DD, I am off-grid for power and have roof top solar with a battery storage system, use grey water systems, recycle so much that our family can't fill the smallest trash pick bin even in two weeks, use less than 400 gallons (we use a little more than we used to a year ago) of fresh water per month. I am not a scientist but you know what? I don't sit here all day telling people what they should be doing if I am unwilling to do it myself, espouse blue sky imagination as if it is fact and going to solve problems in the real world but I walk the walk without making excuses as to why I do can't do this or that.

I don't sit here claiming that EVs are the solution to air pollution and then come up with some needs excuse as to why I don't own one myself like some other people do.

The hypocrites that come here every day to paint all the rosey pictures because they sit around doing little more for the environment than searching for the next fad that isn't going anywhere are what gives the green movement (if you call it that) a bad name. You want to know the real costs to the green movement, it is those people because they distract until you ask them what they do and then all you hear are excuses.
Firstly, I commend you for your green life style. Period.

I do think some famous people and ex elected officials have logistical concerns to consider to which the average joe doesn't have any direct sense. For instance, you or I are not in danger of being assassinated or mobbed by fans, etc..And the majority of us don't engage in high profile work where we need to be in one part of the globe with little upfront notice. There are occupational differences, for instance, between a shop clerk and a medical technician that one would be blind not to recognize.

I think using the occupational demands of the unusual minority as a way to discourage getting the consumption levels of the majority under control is unfair. We obviously can't have our president traveling by sailing ship, so he can satisfy your request for consistency, until scientists have figured out a cleaner way to transport people long distances quickly.

And remember, to the degree that a famous person is leading an average life, they would be suspeptible to the same laws, once they are enacted, as everyone else.

Last edited by Shankapotomus; 12-10-2014 at 11:45 AM..
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Old 12-10-2014, 12:01 PM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,767 posts, read 2,291,031 times
Reputation: 2343
For the full, unbiased truth about Al Gore's transportation choices see:

http://www.myperfectautomobile.com/g...ive-green.html

And, more recently:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...003_Page5.html

For personal trips, he drives a Prius or Lexus hybrid.

The limos are for trips when security is an issue.
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Old 12-10-2014, 12:04 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,829,402 times
Reputation: 11419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
Firstly, I commend you for your green life style. Period.

I do think some famous people and ex elected officials have logistical concerns to consider to which the average joe doesn't have any direct sense. For instance, you or I are not in danger of being assassinated or mobbed by fans, etc..And the majority of us don't engage in high profile work where we need to be in one part of the globe with little upfront notice. There are occupational differences, for instance, between a shop clerk and a medical technician that one would be blind not to recognize.

I think using the occupational demands of the unusual minority as a way to discourage getting the consumption levels of the majority under control is unfair. We obviously can't have our president traveling by steamship, so he can satisfy your request for consistency, until scientists have figured out a cleaner way to transport people long distances quickly.

And remember, to the degree that a famous person is leading an average life, they would be suspeptible to the same laws, once they are enacted, as everyone else.
First things first. In view of your last post to me on another thread, please don't expect me to take what you say seriously. That was a personal attack, you spoke for "people" whomever that might be but if you speak for others, list them.

However, as to your comments on this post, there are things that don't seem right.

The choice to lead a high profile lifestyle doesn't negate or absolve anyone from being cognizant and responsible in that lifestyle. When was the last time someone was assassinated on a commercial flight? The chances of that happening? Nearly nil. Second, commercial flights are scheduled so that just about anyone can get just about anywhere when they need to be there, especially those with the financial resources to pay for it. The fuel consumption for most private jets far exceeds the fuel burn rates for commercial jets, especially the newer models as calculated per passenger mile covered.

Most of the people traveling in private jets have a fear of assassination? Why then wasn't that brought up in Congressional hearing when the CEOS of some of the largest car manufacturers were chastised for using private jets to attend the hearing? Surely they would have the same fears as the people attending some climate change conference.

Would it take so much to require those attending the very conferences where the environment is the paramount concern to also do as they want others to do? Does privilege and status now trump concerns for the environment, not just for them? I see the hypocrisy, perhaps you don't?

We aren't talking about the President, he has a far greater role in government and we re protecting the office, not the man. The President is the Commander in Chief but trying to bring that office into this discussion is way off the mark. Lets be realistic here. I didn't bring up the President, why did you?

A steamship? That right there is why comments about the President take away the credibility of your comments. We went from talking about the spokespeople that many use in citation and as experts in the field or those that make their living in the green arena to the President using a steamship. Seriously?

Where did I say that the President should travel by steamship because of my request for consistency?

You see? You tried to put words in my mouth, then tried to use them to claim something that simply isn't true.

Consistency indeed. No wonder you don't like it, disregarding it allows you to say things like that and then begrudge others from pointing it out.
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Old 12-10-2014, 12:27 PM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,767 posts, read 2,291,031 times
Reputation: 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
First things first. In view of your last post to me on another thread, please don't expect me to take what you say seriously. That was a personal attack, you spoke for "people" whomever that might be but if you speak for others, list them.

However, as to your comments on this post, there are things that don't seem right.

The choice to lead a high profile lifestyle doesn't negate or absolve anyone from being cognizant and responsible in that lifestyle. When was the last time someone was assassinated on a commercial flight? The chances of that happening? Nearly nil. Second, commercial flights are scheduled so that just about anyone can get just about anywhere when they need to be there, especially those with the financial resources to pay for it. The fuel consumption for most private jets far exceeds the fuel burn rates for commercial jets, especially the newer models as calculated per passenger mile covered.

Most of the people traveling in private jets have a fear of assassination? Why then wasn't that brought up in Congressional hearing when the CEOS of some of the largest car manufacturers were chastised for using private jets to attend the hearing? Surely they would have the same fears as the people attending some climate change conference.

Would it take so much to require those attending the very conferences where the environment is the paramount concern to also do as they want others to do? Does privilege and status now trump concerns for the environment, not just for them? I see the hypocrisy, perhaps you don't?

We aren't talking about the President, he has a far greater role in government and we re protecting the office, not the man. The President is the Commander in Chief but trying to bring that office into this discussion is way off the mark. Lets be realistic here. I didn't bring up the President, why did you?

A steamship? That right there is why comments about the President take away the credibility of your comments. We went from talking about the spokespeople that many use in citation and as experts in the field or those that make their living in the green arena to the President using a steamship. Seriously?

Where did I say that the President should travel by steamship because of my request for consistency?

You see? You tried to put words in my mouth, then tried to use them to claim something that simply isn't true.

Consistency indeed. No wonder you don't like it, disregarding it allows you to say things like that and then begrudge others from pointing it out.
Again, you are harping on the minority who very often do have not only legitimate security concerns but also logistical ones when dealing with the public. Sometimes it might not be practical for someone of high profile to get on a commercial flight due to the distraction and inconvienance it may cause yourself and others.

As for CEO's and private planes: Commercial planes don't cause assassinations. CEO's are not politicians or actors. For the most part, CEO's are not in the news every day, not obsessed over by the public, not eyed as critically as a politician is who proposes laws that effect people's lives and not identified as easily. We should be grateful many politicians don't take commercial flights because who knows how a random passenger might react to their presence.

Right, I know, you didn't bring up the president. I apologize. You brought up Al Gore, a former Vice President and, as you know, all former presidents and vice president's can still have legitimate security concerns.
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Old 12-10-2014, 12:55 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,829,402 times
Reputation: 11419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
Again, you are harping on the minority who very often do have not only legitimate security concerns but also logistical ones when dealing with the public. Sometimes it might not be practical for someone of high profile to get on a commercial flight due to the distraction and inconvienance it may cause yourself and others.

As for CEO's and private planes: Commercial planes don't cause assassinations. CEO's are not politicians or actors. For the most part, CEO's are not in the news every day, not obsessed over by the public, not eyed as critically as a politician is who proposes laws that effect people's lives and not identified as easily. We should be grateful many politicians don't take commercial flights because who knows how a random passenger might react to their presence.

Right, I know, you didn't bring up the president. I apologize. You brought up Al Gore, a former Vice President and, as you know, all former presidents and vice president's can still have legitimate security concerns.
I knew it would come out sooner or later, it was just a matter of time. The entitlement of the elite using fabricated justifications.

This isn't about CEOs vs Politicians, nice try but disingenuous topic switch.

The subset of this thread in discussion is about the do as I say not as I do theme prevalent among those who are often cited as leaders or spokepersons for climate change and the environment.

For the record though, just to correct the bad info, CEOs are often in the public eye, often as much as many politicians. They create policies that directly affect hundreds of millions of people all over the world or are you unaware of what happens when the CEOs of Apple, Facebook and many other high tech companies change privacy and use policies?

You talk about the exceptions of "sometimes" as a justification for always. You might want to read your own post and rethink it.

Do you have rooftop solar?

*The emphasis is mine.
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