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Old 12-18-2014, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Texas
43,402 posts, read 52,384,520 times
Reputation: 70370

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I am a BIG fan of emerging EV tech. I have several friends with Teslas. I am sad that they discontinued the roadster.

I am also not interested in buying one. Because my car has to give me more than an A to B econobox driving experience.
It also needs to give me greater range than a couple hundred miles.
However, I know with time we will see more interesting options.

For people who want a tool (which is what a car boils down to), I think most EVs would be great for them.

I'll wait for them to build one (and not just some model/exotic or limited production run) that is also an experience.
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Old 12-19-2014, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,532,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
Then the purpose of the thread and Op was exactly what?
Switching to EVs saves a lot of hydrocarbon pollution, even if the electricity is generated using fossil fuels, because EVs are so much more energy efficient than ICE cars. It's far cheaper to "fuel" EVs than gasoline cars, even with the recent lowered gasoline prices.

The constant criticism, though, has been that the public won't accept these cars, that they're just a fad. And specifically this was responding to the criticism that the Tesla car is mostly based on existing car designs, and I replied that yes... the electric drivetrain and power supply IS the point... that's what saves all the energy! And the quotes about how much owners love them is loud and clear rebuttal to the critics who say that they don't meet driver's needs.

Check it out... they meet LOTS of driver's needs! They're as a zero emissions vehicle they're greener than hybrids. And they've started a growing trend toward popularity!
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Old 12-19-2014, 11:13 PM
 
4,718 posts, read 8,941,008 times
Reputation: 2153
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
I am a BIG fan of emerging EV tech. I have several friends with Teslas. I am sad that they discontinued the roadster.

I am also not interested in buying one. Because my car has to give me more than an A to B econobox driving experience.
It also needs to give me greater range than a couple hundred miles.
However, I know with time we will see more interesting options.

For people who want a tool (which is what a car boils down to), I think most EVs would be great for them.

I'll wait for them to build one (and not just some model/exotic or limited production run) that is also an experience.
Hmmmm... Just making sure that I understand you correctly. A Tesla has an econobox driving experience to you? I get that you need more range out of it - and that is the one thing that stops us from even remotely considering one, unless I could afford it as a third vehicle. Especially in the cold where the range is cut in half.

Curious, What vehicle do you drive right now? And I am upset that Tesla discontinued the roadster as well. Just the other day a Tesla Roadster was totaled on the roads in Alaska (Yep, people have brought Tesla's here already and there isn't even a service center in the entire state).

I do like EREVs or PHEVs - EVs with an on board generator to give you the same range and flexibility as pure gas/diesel vehicle. I did drive one from South Florida to Alaska without any issues or worrying about running out of range or fuel.
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Old 12-20-2014, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 23,532,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakster View Post
Hmmmm... Just making sure that I understand you correctly. A Tesla has an econobox driving experience to you?
I'm not sure why you would say that. One of Tesla's real achievements was to start with an EV Roadster that could beat a Porsche 911, to build excitement, and then followed it with a luxury sedan which also beats a Porsche 911, as well as paying for the expansion in manufacturing and infrastructure which will make lower priced models possible in the near future. Thus far Elon Musk is just following the long range strategic plan for popularizing EVs and solar energy which he made public in 2008.

Quote:
I get that you need more range out of it - and that is the one thing that stops us from even remotely considering one, unless I could afford it as a third vehicle. Especially in the cold where the range is cut in half.
People who need more range than they can get from existing models should buy something else for now. It's that simple. But many people are finding the current ranges acceptable. And every aspect of the technology is in a constant stage of improvement.

Quote:
I do like EREVs or PHEVs - EVs with an on board generator to give you the same range and flexibility as pure gas/diesel vehicle. I did drive one from South Florida to Alaska without any issues or worrying about running out of range or fuel.
No, but as long as they emit carbon pollution, they are no better than a transitional design. Think Zero Emissions... that's where it needs to get to.
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Old 12-20-2014, 12:48 AM
 
4,718 posts, read 8,941,008 times
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Stan4 said that EVs have an econobox driving experience - not me. You already know I own a PHEV/EREV. I'd own a Tesla as a third car in a new minute if I could afford it.

Point 2 - I was again, responding to Stan4. Not stating my opinion.

Until the build out of charging stations is made a lot of people will not be able to have a pure electric vehicle as their primary vehicle. And they need to make an EV truck that call pull a 15k - 20k 5th wheel on a consumer basis. VIA Motors pickup is a great start.

I do like and want a zero emission vehicle. Recently moving to Alaska has made me wish that would happen tomorrow... There are so many inversion layers around the state and cars take a whole lot longer to reduce their emissions (warm up) that I go nuts being behind a gas car when I can't use the recirculate inside air option. Newer cars are so darn automated that defrost and recirculate air won't work at the same time. So you end up sucking up all the exhaust of the cars around you. Being able to SEE the exhaust is crazy too. Cold weather tends to do that, something I never really experienced on a daily basis for weeks on end before.
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Old 12-20-2014, 01:34 AM
 
Location: Texas
43,402 posts, read 52,384,520 times
Reputation: 70370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakster View Post
Hmmmm... Just making sure that I understand you correctly. A Tesla has an econobox driving experience to you? I get that you need more range out of it - and that is the one thing that stops us from even remotely considering one, unless I could afford it as a third vehicle. Especially in the cold where the range is cut in half.

Curious, What vehicle do you drive right now? And I am upset that Tesla discontinued the roadster as well. Just the other day a Tesla Roadster was totaled on the roads in Alaska (Yep, people have brought Tesla's here already and there isn't even a service center in the entire state).

I do like EREVs or PHEVs - EVs with an on board generator to give you the same range and flexibility as pure gas/diesel vehicle. I did drive one from South Florida to Alaska without any issues or worrying about running out of range or fuel.
Sorry. I was unclear.
I am a fan BECAUSE of what I see Tesla doing.
No, I don't find their sedan that exciting to drive (also, I need a convertible), but I like their ideas.

What car do I drive? Nearly any I want.

My (obviously badly worded) point was that Tesla shows us the beginning of how EV can be engaging and exciting, but most drivers who are looking for a tool can get what they need can have their needs met with existing lower end offerings.
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Old 12-20-2014, 05:15 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 795,840 times
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last time the tesla dealer told me is the model S only has a 300 mile range and less once you start going highway speeds. as well as the leafe only goes about a 100 miles. I just can't justify the cost to make me want to own one!!!
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Old 12-20-2014, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Texas
43,402 posts, read 52,384,520 times
Reputation: 70370
Quote:
Originally Posted by ground_pounder View Post
last time the tesla dealer told me is the model S only has a 300 mile range and less once you start going highway speeds. as well as the leafe only goes about a 100 miles. I just can't justify the cost to make me want to own one!!!
For someone like my mother, who just bops around a 5 mile radius, these are perfect.
She has a Lexus hybrid right now, but she has literally never left town in it.

For me, the range is insufficient.
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Old 12-20-2014, 06:43 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,827,016 times
Reputation: 3955
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Do you realize that number is a complete fabrication? The vast majority of energy used to produce gasoline is not purchased electricity. Most of it comes from the oil itself.

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/busines...ergy_Guide.pdf - page 19.
dunno where his number(s) came from, but the Electricity used in the refinery process (which is HUGE) is just a portion of the Electricity used in the overall Well Head to Gasoline Tank path. Would sort of surprise me to see such exact numbers as the major desired product is Diesel, and Gasoline is the side.

Even with conventional Oil -- Pumping and Pipelines make for Big Numbers, but by the time you go Unconventional Oil, the Electricity Costs are sometimes the Highest Single Expense. [Yeah, for Real. I R an EE who works Design and Build in the Energy Industry.]

The big difference is Electricity is (relatively) Cheap and Surplus, whereas Oil is (relatively) Premium and Dear. We joke about how much Electricity we can throw down a hole to get Oil to come out. And THAT is only because of America's addictive level use of ICEs. Means we can throw more energy down the hole than we get out of the wheel/tire/axle automobile and still be profitable solely because folks are addicted to ICEs.

The day we switch to Electricity driving Electric Motor vehicles -- Energy Costs per mile drop about to 1/2 to 1/4 compared to ICE.
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Old 12-21-2014, 02:18 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,829,402 times
Reputation: 11419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
dunno where his number(s) came from, but the Electricity used in the refinery process (which is HUGE) is just a portion of the Electricity used in the overall Well Head to Gasoline Tank path. Would sort of surprise me to see such exact numbers as the major desired product is Diesel, and Gasoline is the side.

Even with conventional Oil -- Pumping and Pipelines make for Big Numbers, but by the time you go Unconventional Oil, the Electricity Costs are sometimes the Highest Single Expense. [Yeah, for Real. I R an EE who works Design and Build in the Energy Industry.]

The big difference is Electricity is (relatively) Cheap and Surplus, whereas Oil is (relatively) Premium and Dear. We joke about how much Electricity we can throw down a hole to get Oil to come out. And THAT is only because of America's addictive level use of ICEs. Means we can throw more energy down the hole than we get out of the wheel/tire/axle automobile and still be profitable solely because folks are addicted to ICEs.

The day we switch to Electricity driving Electric Motor vehicles -- Energy Costs per mile drop about to 1/2 to 1/4 compared to ICE.
Just where does the electricity used by refineries come from then? Go back to the source and lets start there. Like the idea that EVs don't pollute. The car might not, but the real source of it's power sure does. That has to be attributed to the EV.

If it isn't green end to end, is it really?
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