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There is ZERO chance that an innocent buyer will get raw milk. On the other hand, those who wish to drink milk in its unpasteurized state, have been treated as criminals. Even when several buyers get together to co-own the cow(s), they've been arrested and the milk destroyed.
If you want to drink only pasteurized milk, new laws will not prevent you from doing that. I fail to see how forcing the issue onto those who want raw milk, will harm anybody but the raw-milk drinkers. The food police have gone a bit too far on this one. I grew up drinking raw milk, and I'm fine.
It's all about personal choice. Maybe the food police don't know as much as they think they do.
I've noticed an increasing tendency these days to try to make everything into an issue of "freedom and personal choice". The reality is that the raw milk issue is one of safety and the prevention of food poisoning. Restaurants are required to abide by a series of regulations to insure that their customers don't become sick. In this case, the farmer with dairy cows is taking the place of a restaurant by selling a product for consumption that could be unsafe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaAma
I can't fathom why anyone should be able to put a gun to my head in order to control what I do or do not eat. It's also worth considering that the people who can afford to buy government regulations and fearmongering are the people who benefit from making raw milk illegal...
I switched to local raw milk about a year and a half ago and I love it. It is so much creamier, tastes better, and I believe the benefits far outweigh any risks, but that's my choice for me, and I do not presume to make choices for anyone else. All I ask is the same consideration in return.
I'm glad you haven't gotten sick, but you could easily become ill drinking a product like this. Do you have children? Do you give it to them to drink? According to the CDC, those most at risk of getting sick from raw milk are children, infants, and the elderly.
Excellent citation. There are many risks to drinking unpasteurized milk. Those who do get sick with salmonella should realize that some strains are now becoming resistant to antibiotics and may not be easy to treat. People can and do die from salmonella, e. coli, and listeria infections.
Its about a lot more than that. Where there are cows there is manure. There are also usually flies. Its very easy for bacteria to contaminate milk after a cow has been milked. All the washing in the world isn't going to get rid of all that bacteria. Milk is also the perfect medium in which bacteria can thrive. It is full of fats, proteins, and sugars.
The process of pasteurization is required to make sure the bacteria have been killed. The milk is heated to a high temperature for a period of time sufficient to kill all bacteria.
Of course, milk should be properly stored in a refrigerator after it has been pasteurized. Perhaps, you drank raw milk as a child and never got sick. Good for you. It doesn't mean other people don't get sick. Drinking unpasteurized milk has been the cause of many diseases and even deaths.
As one poster pointed out, the American Academy of Pediatrics has warned against it. Heed that warning.
This links to an article published by the Food and Drug Administration. The article says that people who drink raw milk are 13 X more likely to get food poisoning than those drinking pasteurized milk. Unpasteurized milk can carry these bacteria: Salmonella; e. coli: and listeria.
Factually incorrect. Raw milk does have lots of bacteria in it but if the farmer did his job its full of good bacteria. Raw milk doesn't spoil because its full of good bacteria that prevent harmful bacteria from growing. So no raw milk isnt a perfect medium for harmful bacteriea. Raw milk lasts about 2 weeks before it begins to turn into yogurt and eventually it will separate into the curds and whey. Even then its safe to eat.
Fat is not bad for you. tired of people saying it is when the scientific community has proven this.
You only get nutrients from 3 main sources. Fat, Carbs, and protein. If you are limiting your intake of fat and protein you are eating more carbs.
The FDA is a bought and paid for org that only does what their master, big agri business, tells them to do. The revolving door of people leaving the top positions in the FDA and joining agri businesses should be criminal. Unfortunately its a legal way to payoff someone to do what you want them to do. Same thing happens with the SEC and wall street banks. I pay about as much attention to what the FDA says as I do the crazy homeless guy on the corner.
As far as the AAP goes, their answer for everything is drugs. They have one goal...push drugs for big pharma.
Heres the real kicker. In Europe raw milk and cheeses are widely available. The EU even states clearly that all raw milk products are legal and considered safe for human consumption. If it was so bad and unhealthy for you and so many people were getting sick and dying from raw milk do you think it would be available so readily? But here since big businesses are the ones writing the laws its of course illegal.
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Originally Posted by PeaceOut001
PeachSalsa: Can you tell me the timeframe (like from 1980 to 1985) you drank the milk? I've seen raw milk from local producers here (I'm pretty sure) but I thought it was pasteurized. I may be mixing some things up. There's a huge movement of local growers in Asheville and if it's considered safe, I'll look into it.
Interesting post. Many thanks.
Its available in a lot of areas. Be careful though. Once you taste real milk its tough to look at the stuff in the supermarket as the real deal anymore. We are lucky enough to have an in state milk producer that has stores state wide that sells legal milk in their stores that tastes very good. They also sell raw milk only at their dairy only per state laws.
Main thing is to go to a local producer and ask them some questions about their product. Many will let you look around the farm and how they run the operation. Compare a few and go with the one that makes you the most comfortable.
Factually incorrect. Raw milk does have lots of bacteria in it but if the farmer did his job its full of good bacteria. Raw milk doesn't spoil because its full of good bacteria that prevent harmful bacteria from growing. So no raw milk isnt a perfect medium for harmful bacteriea. Raw milk lasts about 2 weeks before it begins to turn into yogurt and eventually it will separate into the curds and whey. Even then its safe to eat.
This myth evolved from a partial truth based on experimental data where researchers inoculated “bad†bacteria into raw milk and measured its survival. In one experiment, a few strains of the bacteria Campylobacter died sooner in raw milk compared with sterile milk (13), but most strains survived long in enough in both types of milk to make someone sick. Other experiments have shown survival and even growth of E. coli O157, Salmonella, and Listeria in raw milk and raw milk products (14-17). Live bacterial pathogens are routinely found in bulk tank milk on farms, which proves that “bad†bacteria are not reliably killed by “good†bacteria, enzymes or other components of raw milk (18-21). Raw milk also does not kill or reduce foodborne viruses or parasites."
Bad bacteria can get into milk quite easily. Sick cows can pass bacteria through their milk. Tuberculosis, scarlet fever and brucellosis come to mind. When the milk is stored or transported just one sick cow can contaminate the whole tank.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanokie
The FDA is a bought and paid for org that only does what their master, big agri business, tells them to do. The revolving door of people leaving the top positions in the FDA and joining agri businesses should be criminal. Unfortunately its a legal way to payoff someone to do what you want them to do. Same thing happens with the SEC and wall street banks. I pay about as much attention to what the FDA says as I do the crazy homeless guy on the corner.
One thing I've never understood about people pushing the "big agri" angle on raw milk. It costs money to handle and pasteurize milk. A lot of money. So you would think if the FDA is in the pocket of big agriculture, they would just let businesses sell milk whatever way was cheapest.
I vaguely remember reading a book called "World's Fair" by E. L. Doctorow about 25-30 years ago. One of the characters in the book wrote some kind of essay or something, with a subject such as what it means to be an American, or something like that. And going out in the country and drinking raw milk was one of the things an American would do, because it took guts. (I hope taking guts is not a pun. It would be a bad one.)
This myth evolved from a partial truth based on experimental data where researchers inoculated “bad” bacteria into raw milk and measured its survival. In one experiment, a few strains of the bacteria Campylobacter died sooner in raw milk compared with sterile milk (13), but most strains survived long in enough in both types of milk to make someone sick. Other experiments have shown survival and even growth of E. coli O157, Salmonella, and Listeria in raw milk and raw milk products (14-17). Live bacterial pathogens are routinely found in bulk tank milk on farms, which proves that “bad” bacteria are not reliably killed by “good” bacteria, enzymes or other components of raw milk (18-21). Raw milk also does not kill or reduce foodborne viruses or parasites."
Bad bacteria can get into milk quite easily. Sick cows can pass bacteria through their milk. Tuberculosis, scarlet fever and brucellosis come to mind. When the milk is stored or transported just one sick cow can contaminate the whole tank.
One thing I've never understood about people pushing the "big agri" angle on raw milk. It costs money to handle and pasteurize milk. A lot of money. So you would think if the FDA is in the pocket of big agriculture, they would just let businesses sell milk whatever way was cheapest.
You can decide to believe the government propaganda or you can believe the facts. Not a single person has died from raw milk consumption in over a decade. Is it possible you could get sick from it? Yes you can get sick from it. The likely hood of getting sick from eating vegetables or even milk from a store is a much higher risk. It is a fact that it is much harder for natural occuring bacteria to contaminate a gallon of raw milk than a gallon of pasteurized milk.
As to why you dont understand the agri business angle....its because you dont understand how milk is produced. To be able to serve good raw milk you have to have good grass pastures. Agri business dairies dont do pasture. They also combine the milk from way too many cows which would cause the waste of large quantities of milk. The milking is completely mechanical and/or at such a rapid pace that the cleanliness reqd to sell raw milk is impossible. They wouldnt know and dont care if one of the cows is obviously sick, it gets milked anyways.
Raw milk sales are not compatible with factory style farming practices. Its a more hands on and local business. In other words it eats into their business. So if raw milk regulations here were changed to what they are in most other countries then they would be forced to lose that percentage of their business.
Again....if its so dangerous then why is it so available in other industrialized countries?
The federal government banned the sale of raw milk across state lines nearly three decades ago because it poses a threat to public health. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Medical Association all strongly advise people not to drink it.
But individual states still control raw milk sales within their borders. And despite the health warnings, some Midwestern states have recently proposed legalizing raw milk sales to impose strict regulations on the risky — and growing — market.
Maybe it is safer if you buy organic milk? And I assume this also applies to goat milk which many people think is very healthy. They already sell raw cheese in my local health food stores.
You can decide to believe the government propaganda or you can believe the facts. Not a single person has died from raw milk consumption in over a decade. Is it possible you could get sick from it? Yes you can get sick from it. The likely hood of getting sick from eating vegetables or even milk from a store is a much higher risk. It is a fact that it is much harder for natural occuring bacteria to contaminate a gallon of raw milk than a gallon of pasteurized milk.
As to why you dont understand the agri business angle....its because you dont understand how milk is produced. To be able to serve good raw milk you have to have good grass pastures. Agri business dairies dont do pasture. They also combine the milk from way too many cows which would cause the waste of large quantities of milk. The milking is completely mechanical and/or at such a rapid pace that the cleanliness reqd to sell raw milk is impossible. They wouldnt know and dont care if one of the cows is obviously sick, it gets milked anyways.
Raw milk sales are not compatible with factory style farming practices. Its a more hands on and local business. In other words it eats into their business. So if raw milk regulations here were changed to what they are in most other countries then they would be forced to lose that percentage of their business.
Again....if its so dangerous then why is it so available in other industrialized countries?
Don't accept what health care professionals at the CDC have to say about the dangers of consuming raw milk because it's all "propaganda" aimed at protecting "factory style farming".
Believe all the anonymous testaments from internet bloggers and posters who claim that they never got sick and didn't die from years of consuming raw milk.
Right-o.
As for not understanding "the agri business angle", guess what, you quite obviously don't either. Here in NYS and other parts of the east, dairy farmers always pasture their cows because it significantly lowers production costs by saving on forage and bedding. Moreover, if you get too high a bacteria count in your milk, your entire shipment (worth thousands of dollars BTW) is rejected by the co-op, so dairy farmers have to make cleanliness a priority, and they can not have milk from a sick cow contaminating their entire milk. Who, exactly, monitors the production of raw milk?
Does raw milk taste significantly different from pasteurized and homogenized milk? I have never had it but I love milk so much that I would like to try it at least once to see if there is a difference.
Does raw milk taste significantly different from pasteurized and homogenized milk? I have never had it but I love milk so much that I would like to try it at least once to see if there is a difference.
I haven't drank raw milk since my dad had a milk cow (50 years ago) but I think yes there is a big difference. Our raw milk always had a thick cream layer on top. I always shook the container before pouring the milk into a glass. My mom had so much milk from a single cow that we fed it to the dogs in the their Gravy-Train and poured much of it out on the ground.
Raw milk tastes great but having a milk cow is a LOT of trouble.
Its about a lot more than that. Where there are cows there is manure. There are also usually flies. Its very easy for bacteria to contaminate milk after a cow has been milked. All the washing in the world isn't going to get rid of all that bacteria. Milk is also the perfect medium in which bacteria can thrive. It is full of fats, proteins, and sugars.
The process of pasteurization is required to make sure the bacteria have been killed. The milk is heated to a high temperature for a period of time sufficient to kill all bacteria.
Of course, milk should be properly stored in a refrigerator after it has been pasteurized. Perhaps, you drank raw milk as a child and never got sick. Good for you. It doesn't mean other people don't get sick. Drinking unpasteurized milk has been the cause of many diseases and even deaths.
As one poster pointed out, the American Academy of Pediatrics has warned against it. Heed that warning.
This links to an article published by the Food and Drug Administration. The article says that people who drink raw milk are 13 X more likely to get food poisoning than those drinking pasteurized milk. Unpasteurized milk can carry these bacteria: Salmonella; e. coli: and listeria.
We grew up on it and so did all my relatives as well. Never heard of any problems either. Yes i understand there can be. Back in the 60's people said don't sell or give away that milk. If a person gets sick then you will get sued. Sure hated dumping gallons of milk and cream out. YMMV
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Moreover, if you get too high a bacteria count in your milk, your entire shipment (worth thousands of dollars BTW) is rejected by the co-op, so dairy farmers have to make cleanliness a priority, and they can not have milk from a sick cow contaminating their entire milk. Who, exactly, monitors the production of raw milk?
