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Old 02-25-2015, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,263 posts, read 28,068,309 times
Reputation: 28701

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshine809 View Post
People drank raw milk for 1000's of years before pasteurization, etc. It's all about money...
People were dying from consumption of raw milk before pasteurization. That's why the process was invented.

Raw milk can still make people very sick.
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Old 02-25-2015, 01:58 AM
 
74 posts, read 75,064 times
Reputation: 108
I drink raw goat milk and I have never had one problem with it. I would much rather drink that than the water they call milk from the store. It is so delicious and really good for you. It is a fact that more people have become sick from pasteurized milk than heavy regulated raw milk. No food is immune from making people sick.

You need to know where the milk is coming from as well. Would I drink raw milk from a cow that is confined and eating an unnatural diet? Hell no! These animals cannot fight off infection, etc. Because they are not living the way they should be.

Would I drink raw milk from goats and cows that are allowed to roam and eats a grass fed diet? In a minute and happily.
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Old 02-25-2015, 03:22 AM
 
Location: Mountain Home, ID
1,955 posts, read 2,999,195 times
Reputation: 2410
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceOut001 View Post
I understand with the way animals are now mass-produced and treated with a plethora of antibiotics, growth hormones, and other nasty things that we need to be careful. I'm living in an area where healthy living is promoted. So, I have learned to selectively trust the locally-produced milk products that are fortunately not cooked white water. Ugh, what an image.
Cows are not like chickens that keep laying eggs no matter how miserable they are. Sick, stressed cows have reduced milk output, and can even stop giving milk entirely. So it's in the best interest of the dairy operation to keep their cows as healthy and happy as possible. They keep meticulous records and each cow carries an RFID tag that they use to track the cow's output, health and medical records. So they're actually pretty good about spotting sick animals.

Milk cows do not get antibiotics unless they are sick, and then the milk is discarded until they are well and the antibiotics are out of their system. Antibiotics are NOT allowed in commercially sold milk. No dairy processor would touch it.
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Old 02-25-2015, 06:01 AM
 
Location: In Thy presence is fulness of joy... Psa 16:11
299 posts, read 197,186 times
Reputation: 359
We had 2 families in our church who drank their own cow milk (unpasteurized, etc.). Though they had large families, both were willing to share a gallon or two a week of their extra with us. The first family was not very clean about their cow or milk jars. It didn't take us long to decide we didn't want their "generosity." The second family was immaculate with their cow and their milk jars. That milk was a tremendous blessing to us--not only was the taste unlike anything you can get from the stores, but the natural probiotics in the milk were healing to our stomachs.
Yes, listeria is a problem to be reckoned with. Pasteurization only prevents some of it! Follow the FDA recalls and you will see that foods that are processed in the same factory, or put on the same large conveyer belts for packaging also get contaminated by listeria (fruits/vegetables, other)!
Cleanliness is the big key to it all.
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,215 posts, read 7,881,405 times
Reputation: 7740
The idea of "raw milk" seems silly to me. Pasteurization was developed for a reason.
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:14 AM
 
8,199 posts, read 6,097,348 times
Reputation: 11730
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Let's carry this idea about "freedom and choice" just a bit further:

Would it be acceptable to you for a restaurant to post a sign for its customers saying: "This food may be spoiled. Eat it at your own risk".

Than, the restaurant goes on to violate all sanitary food regulations. Staff does not wash their hands. Food is left unrefrigerated. Uncooked or half cooked meat is frequently sold to customers. Dishes, pots, and pans are often left unwashed and used again.

The restaurant does this because it has an economic motive to do so. Serving food this way is cheaper and more profitable than abiding by health department regulations.
Nearly all of your posts assume that people are bumbling imbeciles that are not going to survive without help or protection from the government. In the example you offered, the business would quickly go out of business because word of mouth and market forces would eliminate customers.

My view is there are always risks in life. We are becoming a weaker society because of all of these "protections" against things that were commonplace in the past. I went through 13 years of school never once encountering anyone with a peanut allergy. That included 4 states and 7 different schools. Now kids are banned by the government schools from bringing in PB&J sandwiches because there are other kids that could drop dead if they inhale peanut dust. Also, kids now get chicken pox vaccinations. When I was a kid, your chicken pox vaccination was being taken for a play date with the kid that had the chicken pox. No one ever died; we just built up immunity.

I have to think the human body is becoming weaker due to being "protected" from so many things.
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:19 AM
 
9,128 posts, read 9,215,624 times
Reputation: 28591
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle View Post
Nearly all of your posts assume that people are bumbling imbeciles that are not going to survive without help or protection from the government. In the example you offered, the business would quickly go out of business because word of mouth and market forces would eliminate customers.

My view is there are always risks in life. We are becoming a weaker society because of all of these "protections" against things that were commonplace in the past. I went through 13 years of school never once encountering anyone with a peanut allergy. That included 4 states and 7 different schools. Now kids are banned by the government schools from bringing in PB&J sandwiches because there are other kids that could drop dead if they inhale peanut dust. Also, kids now get chicken pox vaccinations. When I was a kid, your chicken pox vaccination was being taken for a play date with the kid that had the chicken pox. No one ever died; we just built up immunity.

I have to think the human body is becoming weaker due to being "protected" from so many things.
If market forces were all it took to eliminate sale of unsanitary food and beverages there never would have been a problem in the first place. Upton Sinclair wouldn't have had any material to write his book, The Jungle.

The profit motive indirectly encourages vendors to cut corners and sell food that is not prepared in the safest way.

The reason we have regulation of the food industry is because there was a problem that free markets couldn't fix.
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,263 posts, read 28,068,309 times
Reputation: 28701
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshine809 View Post
I drink raw goat milk and I have never had one problem with it. I would much rather drink that than the water they call milk from the store. It is so delicious and really good for you. It is a fact that more people have become sick from pasteurized milk than heavy regulated raw milk. No food is immune from making people sick.

You need to know where the milk is coming from as well. Would I drink raw milk from a cow that is confined and eating an unnatural diet? Hell no! These animals cannot fight off infection, etc. Because they are not living the way they should be.

Would I drink raw milk from goats and cows that are allowed to roam and eats a grass fed diet? In a minute and happily.
No, raw milk causes more outbreaks, even though raw milk is a small percentage of milk consumed. Cows can have the organisms on their skin or they can be transferred to milk by humans handling it. The cow may not be sick and still carry the bacteria. The diet of the cow is irrelevant.

Raw (Unpasteurized) Milk | Features | CDC

Among dairy product-associated outbreaks reported to CDC during 2007 and 2012 in which the investigators reported whether the product was pasteurized or raw, 81% were due to raw milk or cheese. A study released by CDC in January 2014 examined the number of outbreaks associated with raw milk in the United States during this 6‐year period. From 2007 through 2012, 81 outbreaks due to consumption of raw milk were reported to CDC from 26 states. These outbreaks resulted in 979 illnesses and 73 people were hospitalized. Most of these illnesses were caused by Campylobacter, Escherichia coli O157, or Salmonella. Most (81%) outbreaks occurred in states where the sale of raw milk was legal at the time. It is important to note that a substantial proportion of the raw milk-associated disease burden falls on children. Of the 78 outbreaks from 2007 to 2012 with information on the patients’ ages available, 59% involved at least one child under the age of 5 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NT Fellowship View Post
We had 2 families in our church who drank their own cow milk (unpasteurized, etc.). Though they had large families, both were willing to share a gallon or two a week of their extra with us. The first family was not very clean about their cow or milk jars. It didn't take us long to decide we didn't want their "generosity." The second family was immaculate with their cow and their milk jars. That milk was a tremendous blessing to us--not only was the taste unlike anything you can get from the stores, but the natural probiotics in the milk were healing to our stomachs.
Yes, listeria is a problem to be reckoned with. Pasteurization only prevents some of it! Follow the FDA recalls and you will see that foods that are processed in the same factory, or put on the same large conveyer belts for packaging also get contaminated by listeria (fruits/vegetables, other)!
Cleanliness is the big key to it all.
Cleanliness cannot prevent contamination of raw milk with bacteria. There are no beneficial effects from bacteria in raw milk. Yes, other foods can cause illness, but that is irrelevant to a discussion of raw milk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle View Post
Nearly all of your posts assume that people are bumbling imbeciles that are not going to survive without help or protection from the government. In the example you offered, the business would quickly go out of business because word of mouth and market forces would eliminate customers.

My view is there are always risks in life. We are becoming a weaker society because of all of these "protections" against things that were commonplace in the past. I went through 13 years of school never once encountering anyone with a peanut allergy. That included 4 states and 7 different schools. Now kids are banned by the government schools from bringing in PB&J sandwiches because there are other kids that could drop dead if they inhale peanut dust. Also, kids now get chicken pox vaccinations. When I was a kid, your chicken pox vaccination was being taken for a play date with the kid that had the chicken pox. No one ever died; we just built up immunity.

I have to think the human body is becoming weaker due to being "protected" from so many things.
The banning of peanuts from schools that have an allergic child have just as much to do with the child accidentally consuming a product with peanuts in it as to exposure to peanut "dust". That you never encountered a person with a peanut allergy does not mean there was no one with one.

People did die from chickenpox.

Chickenpox | Monitoring Vaccine Impact | Varicella | CDC

"Chickenpox used to be very common in the United States. In the early 1990s, an average of 4 million people got varicella, 10,500 to 13,000 were hospitalized (range, 8,000 to 18,000), and 100 to 150 died each year."

"Each year, more than 3.5 million cases of varicella, 9,000 hospitalizations, and 100 deaths are prevented by varicella vaccination in the United States."

With chickenpox, the "immunity" you got includes permanent residence of the virus in your nervous system with a lifetime risk of 50% of having shingles if you live to age 85. Shingles is excruciatingly painful, some people get permanent nerve damage and pain from it, and post-herpetic neuralgia is one of the most common cause of suicide in the elderly. The evidence is emerging that the risk of shingles after the vaccine is much lower.

Without government oversight, our food supply would be much less safe.
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
13,837 posts, read 25,215,602 times
Reputation: 26173
Most of us have never tasted 'real' milk. And that white stuff in the stores is so processed it doesn't even resemble the real thing. Ever wonder why cheeses and other milk products taste so much better in other countries? They are made with milk that isn't processed.

If drinking the stuff was that bad it would have wiped us out hundreds of years ago. And most countries don't process dairy as much as we do and they are still breathing too.
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Old 02-25-2015, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,313 posts, read 1,098,840 times
Reputation: 1822
anecdotally I heard of a family that drank raw milk and they all got an incurable disease. no thanks for me.
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