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Old 05-01-2015, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Bend Or.
1,126 posts, read 2,925,232 times
Reputation: 958

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Litefoot View Post
Fracking could be why a lot of lakes are drying up also.......

Lets say you have 10 bowls, fill the top one with water, set off and explosion in the bottom bowl and the other 9 bowls crack and the water goes where? Same as fracking when you set off and explosion under ground, the lower level breaks up and the rest just kinda crack and sag and the water goes where???


http://www.weather.com/science/envir...st-20140425#/1

7 lakes and rivers that are drying up: Bone dry | MNN - Mother Nature Network

Drying Rivers, Lakes and Reservoirs and Climate Change - World Preservation Foundation
A lot of these posts are misinformed but I'm sorry this one is almost laughable. You are stating a theory and obviously have no clue about the process at all. The coalman and the article posted gave the information but some failed to read it.
Point one, there are no explosives used in Fracking. High Pressure water and chemicals are pumped into an existing well to clean out and fracture existing cracks. This increases the flow of a well. I know this because I had a water well Fracked 15 years ago. This is not a new process. What is new and is spurring more fracking is horizontal and directional drilling techniques which lend themselves to fracking, and drastically increase production. There are horizontal wells deep beneath my house right now. As Coalman pointed out these wells are thousands of feet below the aquifer and are cased in the aquifer area. As someone that lives near many many of these I have no concerns about fracking. Colorado university performed a study and found the chemicals in Fracking no more dangerous that those found in your kitchen.
CU research finds only common chemicals in one part of frac fluid - The Denver Post

Now injection wells are another story. I just cannot condone injecting waste water into the earth to dispose of it, and it has been shown that this is the cause of the earthquakes, not fracking as some have assumed. They are two totally different processes. And fracking as stated in the article is a small source of the injection well water.
Personally I have no dog in this fight, but I hate to see the huge number of uniformed people arguing these points. Reliance on oil is a side issue and off topic. As someone that lives in an area where Fracking is very prevalent, I studied the science, talked to Geologists, drillers and people involved in Fracking, (or more correctly Hydrofracturing) to learn the real risks.

So if you are going to argue the risks and benefits of fracking, be informed, and don't confuse fracking with injection wells.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:05 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,356 posts, read 26,481,472 times
Reputation: 11349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX View Post
Love Canal wasn't an SWD, so your comparison is apples-to-oranges.


No the point is any toxic waste dumped into the ground poses a threat to groundwater and to the safety of the surrounding soil and land. There is not a single material invented by humans that has no risk of leaking eventually. It's not an apples to oranges comparison, it's toxins dumped in the ground to toxins dumped in the ground.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:09 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,356 posts, read 26,481,472 times
Reputation: 11349
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Other than coal or natural gas what would you suggest?

Look around you, nearly everything you see in some way shape or form has been made possible by fossil fuels. Our entire world as we know it built on fossil fuel energy and products derived from them. Cement? Produced with heat from fossil fuels. Steel and other metals? Produced with energy from fossil fuels starting at the mine until it arrives at your front door. Dry wall? Gypsum from coal plants. Plastics? Produced with oil products. Even the wood in your home(assuming standard construction) was produced with fossil fuel energy. Pharmaceuticals, schools, hospitals, streets, sidewalks, airports.....

If you don't think those things have improved peoples lives you're being foolish.
Wood, biogas, geothermal, passive solar. Some work better in some locations than others obviously.

Most of the homes where I'm from were built before petroleum was in widespread use. Petroleum replaced older and often better materials and methods because for a time it was cheap and abundant. It's on the decline now in abundance and won't be cheap much longer.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:16 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,356 posts, read 26,481,472 times
Reputation: 11349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX View Post
You're ignorant of how many products are made from oil. Everything made of or containing plastic is made from oil, and that includes practically everything used in the healthcare field. Oil & gas also are responsible for much of the energy that heats & powers our homes, schools, vehicles, and workplaces. I favor a transition from coal to NG as the main fuel source for our electrical generation facilities, for economic and ecological reasons.
Some of us live differently than others. Apart from this computer, a snowmobile and a truck, little I have is made of plastic or oil.



Quote:




It's not one large well, it's hundreds of small (vertical) wells that were
drilled in the 1960s. Each produces 200-400 bbls (8,400 to 16,800 gallons) per
month. I almost did live next to an oil well; there's a dry hole about 300 yds
from my back porch. And I wouldn't mind if a producer drilled a high-producing
oil or gas well on my property, because I'd love to get that royalty
check each month!


I don't work for an oil company, but I do work for a midstream
(pipeline) company
. I've been on hundreds of locations at various
stages from drilling to fracturing to production, have witnessed with my own
eyes what happens, and have talked to everybody from the frac hands to the
geologists and company representatives so that I can learn firsthand about what
happens, when, and why / why not.
That explains a lot. You should stop being so concerned with scraps of paper and ink (money) and be a bit more concerned about the world we live in and how it will be for future generations. Try drinking or breathing money sometime and see how well it works.

I doubt the royalties would cover the future doctor bills.

Quote:
Much of it is shale oil. I never claimed otherwise, as you are implying.
The facts do not support your frequent claims that oil is abundant and that we have enough for generations.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:20 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,356 posts, read 26,481,472 times
Reputation: 11349
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Have you actually read the history of this? This dump was created long before people had concerns about it and apparently the School Board was warned about it numerous times.

Here's from the transfer of the deed for $1.



From Wikipedia:



Sounds to me like the most responsible party is the school board, yes? FYI a very large percentage of the worst toxic dump sites in the nation were created and owned federally.
Yes I'm intimately familiar with the case. Relatives of mine were impacted by it. The people who insisted on building a school and homes in that area, and dismissed the concerns raised by people who understood there could be a danger, are the same sort of people who today insist fracking practices in use now are safe because of a well casing.

I would say the people who dumped there and the people who ignored concerns were equally at fault.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,539 posts, read 21,247,964 times
Reputation: 16939
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
I'm assuming they have no mineral rights? Here in PA it's been a boom for landowners nearly all of whom own the mineral rights.
Few people do here. If they want to drill on your land they'll pay you for the use, or if you say no they'll buy you another house, equal or usually more value, and move you. But what if you don't want either? What gives an oil company the power to make you choose?

And I was talking about property values. The housing isn't expensive by comparison here, but I'm certain that every house which can watch them fraking from the lawn, probably even further back, lost value. And when they do their crap the ground vibrates which makes you feel dizzy and uncomfortable. And the quakes. What gives them the right to do that?

If I did own mineral rights I'd still say no. They need to follow the same rules others do in residental areas. They need to be reigned in and stopped from always getting their way. PEOPLE have rights.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:46 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Wood, biogas, geothermal, passive solar. Some work better in some locations than others obviously.
Out of all of these the only one that will scale is geothermal. The most desirable places to build such facilities are also some of the most protected areas we have Yellowstone etc. That leaves you with drilling miles into the earths core to make it viable. I'm certain it can be done but it's a long way off and in the meantime we're dumping ridiculous amounts of money into temporary technology like solar PV. While geothermal could solve power needs you still have the very large problem of storage for vehicles.
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Old 05-01-2015, 08:49 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,023,289 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
are the same sort of people who today insist fracking practices in use now are safe because of a well casing.

Multiple layers of well casing cemented into place. It's a substantial structure.
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:01 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,356 posts, read 26,481,472 times
Reputation: 11349
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Out of all of these the only one that will scale is geothermal. The most desirable places to build such facilities are also some of the most protected areas we have Yellowstone etc. That leaves you with drilling miles into the earths core to make it viable. I'm certain it can be done but it's a long way off and in the meantime we're dumping ridiculous amounts of money into temporary technology like solar PV. While geothermal could solve power needs you still have the very large problem of storage for vehicles.
Wood scales up just fine, being useful for individual home heating, electrical generation, or industrial uses. Not just cordwood but boilers burning sawdust, chips, etc., could be used to produce electricity or even heat for large numbers in the urban areas. Quite a few mills here (sawmills) power themselves with their own sawdust or other wood waste products. Geothermal heat pumps work well for heating in many areas. Some areas in Alaska have access to hot springs for heating.

I'm quite positive long daily commutes will be a thing of the past eventually. People will either live in cities or rural areas and not so much in between, as in the past. There's really no known energy source that can power millions and millions of individual vehicles driving long distances every day sustainably long term that is practical. Ethanol, biodiesel, steam engines powered by wood, electric vehicles, all could possibly remain in use indefinitely but not at the current rate of vehicle usage.
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:04 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,356 posts, read 26,481,472 times
Reputation: 11349
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Multiple layers of well casing cemented into place. It's a substantial structure.
I'm not going to trust any well casing containing toxins with my drinking water, my health and life. One good earthquake could break open one of those even if brand new, and then there's age. In a century when the current wells' locations could be forgotten, and the casing deteriorated, there will be people at risk.
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