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Old 05-31-2015, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,523 posts, read 7,779,851 times
Reputation: 13254

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Swing and a miss. Battery is cleaner.
Again, you have to take into account the mining and manufacturing processes that go into that battery.
How "clean and green" are those processes?
What about the disposal of the depleted batteries? will that disposal be "clean and green"?
Yes, using alkaline dry cells in a flashlight is clean, but what about the manufacturing of the cell? what about the millions of them that end up in the landfills across the country?
Can that really be considered "clean and green"?
One must look at the complete picture, from start to finish.
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Old 05-31-2015, 07:53 AM
 
Location: DC
6,507 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
Again, you have to take into account the mining and manufacturing processes that go into that battery.
How "clean and green" are those processes?
What about the disposal of the depleted batteries? will that disposal be "clean and green"?
Yes, using alkaline dry cells in a flashlight is clean, but what about the manufacturing of the cell? what about the millions of them that end up in the landfills across the country?
Can that really be considered "clean and green"?
One must look at the complete picture, from start to finish.
All considered. Battery is cleaner.
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Old 05-31-2015, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,523 posts, read 7,779,851 times
Reputation: 13254
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
All considered. Battery is cleaner.
OK, you say so, it must be true.
Prove it.
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Old 06-01-2015, 10:08 AM
 
Location: DC
6,507 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
OK, you say so, it must be true.
Prove it.
Actually you were the leader with unsubstantiated assertions.
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Old 06-01-2015, 03:41 PM
 
1,131 posts, read 1,046,843 times
Reputation: 1418
After read the OP's postulate, I suspected he must be short Tesla or Solar City stock. After I took my skeptical investor hat off, I looked at what he said and considered he might be right. However, the basis for the Tesla battery isn't confined to what the OP has stated. It's not a solution for everyone, nor is it a end all solution that claimed to cure all our of energy needs. Instead it seems like a smart solution for some, expensive and unnecessary for others, and it seems like the right step on the path to energy progress.

I live in Orange County, Ca where we recently decommissioned an old nuclear power plant. We've also converted a number of coal plants into natural gas plants, but we have been hit hard with a increase in energy demand coupled with a sharp decrease in supply. Our electric company (SCE) use to offer a peak vs off-peak pricing for electricity for residence, but have moved to a progressive tiered pricing system based on allotment and demand. I believe electric car owners and businesses still have the option for the peak/off-peak pricing system and the Tesla battery could be economically wise for those users. In addition, the demand on our local grid should flatten as Telsa battery owners could theoretically charge the battery during low demand periods, and run off the 10 kWh of energy during high demand periods (12pm-6pm). This won't lessen the demand of electricity from the utility companies, but it should lessen the stress on our grid. However, one unintended consequence of the Tesla battery might be higher energy rates as the utility companies protect their revenue stream.

As for which is greener, that's a tough call. I know high tech batteries require rare earth materials, but I'm unclear just how non-green they are if we can efficiently recycle or renew them in the future.
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Old 06-02-2015, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 51,230,061 times
Reputation: 24606
Given the success of his other businesses I doubt that anything this man creates is a "fool's errand." Reasonably priced low maintenance electrical energy storage has always been a major cost factor in PV systems. This may actually make PV systems economically feasible in places with enough sunlight.
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Old 06-02-2015, 07:06 AM
 
Location: DC
6,507 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Given the success of his other businesses I doubt that anything this man creates is a "fool's errand." Reasonably priced low maintenance electrical energy storage has always been a major cost factor in PV systems. This may actually make PV systems economically feasible in places with enough sunlight.
it does, but not really in the lower 48 of the States where the grid is almost universally available.
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Old 06-02-2015, 08:37 AM
 
1,278 posts, read 1,058,099 times
Reputation: 836
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Given the success of his other businesses I doubt that anything this man creates is a "fool's errand." Reasonably priced low maintenance electrical energy storage has always been a major cost factor in PV systems. This may actually make PV systems economically feasible in places with enough sunlight.
It's silly to think that Elon Musk does anything without the big picture in mind. Batteries are really doing well in Prius vehicles and in the Tesla vehicles. The investment and the knowledge is exploding, Elon Musk is investing heavily because he sees the very exciting growth potential for battery chemistry and the ability of harnessing your own energy from the SUN!

With storage, solar energy will become the most economical source of energy on the planet. (It is the chief source of energy on this planet anyway, we just needed a way to directly access it!)

Once again, resources are made accessible to more people by technology! (And technology gets cheaper with time, fuels you have to mine do not.............)
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Old 06-02-2015, 01:15 PM
 
208 posts, read 279,405 times
Reputation: 172
Electric Vehicle Sales to Fall Short of Obama's Goal
Electric Car Growth Projections
Without government incentives, this would be an even bigger fail.
http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/13/re...-to-take-hold/
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Old 06-02-2015, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,523 posts, read 7,779,851 times
Reputation: 13254
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Actually you were the leader with unsubstantiated assertions.
Perhaps you should go back and re-read what I posted. I think you will find I made no "assertions", I asked QUESTIONS!
Edit: In fact, this is from my FIRST post in this thread: "I don't know, though. Perhaps there are no harmful chemicals, no petroleum, no exotic metals, etc. in those batteries or anything associated with them.
I doubt it, but it is possible, I guess..."

Instead of answering the QUESTIONS, you made firm statements: "All considered. Battery is cleaner."
To which I asked: "Prove it."
So, can you prove that the battery is, from start to finish (raw materials to finished product to recycling), "cleaner and greener"? If you can, please do so.
Inquiring minds want to know.
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