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Old 11-01-2015, 01:51 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,969 posts, read 6,283,568 times
Reputation: 12393

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Has nothing to do with EROEI, and not too much to do with price. The markets would all re-adjust around the Renewable Costs and Prices . . . and on we would go.
Fatuous or nonexistent logic. Someone would have to produce the inputs and create the infrastructure. And where do you get the notion of a requirement for "pollution permits" for conventional energy except in your loopy academic world?
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Old 11-01-2015, 02:34 PM
 
39,516 posts, read 40,839,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post

Hydro, Wind, Solar, maybe Waves, and some Geo-Thermal.

All of which would have already swept the field . . . . if there were NO Government Intervention into the Energy Domain.
How does you power get from point A to point B without eminent domain?

How do your panels get built if you can't pollute? Where is it you think they get the materials for those panels? If a product wasn't grown then it was mined or came out of a well.

Your post is just a bunch of nonsense.



Quote:
The markets would all re-adjust around the Renewable Costs and Prices . . . and on we would go.
There is so many issues with what you are suggesting, where do I begin? How are you going to account for the storage issue?
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Old 11-01-2015, 03:24 PM
 
Location: DC
6,530 posts, read 6,468,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
With how much in the way of subsidies?
Cost is independent of subsidy. A subsidy is part of paying for the capital item.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:07 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,853,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Fatuous or nonexistent logic. Someone would have to produce the inputs and create the infrastructure. And where do you get the notion of a requirement for "pollution permits" for conventional energy except in your loopy academic world?
Wow, welcome to this Century.

I suppose you can start your education, here?

Air Permit Programs | Air Quality Planning & Standards | US EPA

Read that, and if you have some questions, we can go from there.
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Old 11-01-2015, 05:30 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,853,236 times
Reputation: 3955
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
How does you power get from point A to point B without eminent domain?
We have not chatted for a while, my friend -- hope is well for you? Winter is your season?

A and B are much closer than you may think.

You have heard of Micro-Grids? A backgrounder >>>

How Microgrids Work | Department of Energy

We can go from there?

Quote:

How do your panels get built if you can't pollute? Where is it you think they get the materials for those panels? If a product wasn't grown then it was mined or came out of a well.

What type of pollution do you have in mind?

I was just starting with Air -- Air permits are very specific and tied to a set Generation Site.

Quote:

Your post is just a bunch of nonsense.
Of course. By Space Aliens from the Future.

Quote:

There is so many issues with what you are suggesting, where do I begin? How are you going to account for the storage issue?
Where to begin? Probably about 50 years from now. Maybe play Rip Van Winkle, go to sleep, now wake up then, note what you see, and come and tell me what you observed?

Here is what I am guessing . . . .

Most every Nuke site is a leaky mess without a Long Term Clean-up Plan. Thorium was just snake oil.

After trashing major land areas and major fresh water sources -- Tar Sands, and Frack Gas and Frack Oil are "played out." Never did get cleaned up, because it all went Bankrupt.

Coal is dead because everyone is just sick of the mess --- and the DoD banned the burning of it, because they want the remaining Coal to use for Oil Conversion for Military Aircraft -- the only Aircraft still flying.

Real Deal is all power is now Solar, Wind, Water and Earth (Geo-Thermal) because it is Cheap, Clean, and Long-Term Sustainable. And it is all there really is.

I am not saying this because of Politics or Preference. I am saying this because it is the only way the Story can play out short of Full-On Nuke or Bio-Chem War.

So. What did you see, Rip Van Winkle?

====================

btw -- as far as "Storage, Storage, Storage" you may be looking at the self-created problem backwards (you understand that it is not even a problem, now, right?). Do you understand the meaning of the Proverb: "Make hay while the Sun shines?"
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Old 11-01-2015, 07:06 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,969 posts, read 6,283,568 times
Reputation: 12393
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
How does you power get from point A to point B without eminent domain?

How do your panels get built if you can't pollute? Where is it you think they get the materials for those panels? If a product wasn't grown then it was mined or came out of a well.

Your post is just a bunch of nonsense.



There is so many issues with what you are suggesting, where do I begin? How are you going to account for the storage issue?
And delusional as well.
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:44 AM
 
39,516 posts, read 40,839,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Coal is dead because everyone is just sick of the mess --- and the DoD banned the burning of it, because they want the remaining Coal to use for Oil Conversion for Military Aircraft -- the only Aircraft still flying.
I'm not sure you understand the vastness of the coal supply in the US. The very tip of this pyramid is good for for the next 20 years. The section marked "recoverable reserves" can be mined today using today's tech feasibly. That's good for about 150 to 200 years.





Quote:
btw -- as far as "Storage, Storage, Storage" you may be looking at the self-created problem backwards (you understand that it is not even a problem, now, right?). Do you understand the meaning of the Proverb: "Make hay while the Sun shines?"
It's not a problem now because it's only a small percentage of the supply. To replace fossil fuels without any substantial increases in the cost of electric would require your storage and generation costs per kWh be a very small percentage of fossil fuels. It might be something like 5 or 10 percent.
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Old 11-02-2015, 07:10 AM
 
Location: DC
6,530 posts, read 6,468,965 times
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We didn't transition out of the Stone Age because we ran short of rocks.
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:27 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,853,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
We didn't transition out of the Stone Age because we ran short of rocks.
True dat.

You follow what DC is saying, Coalman?

Same on most ANY technology shift.

Landlines going away, and the Rise of Cellphones. We have/had 100's of years of Land Lines left . . . but folks are just walking away.

Horses to Cars -- about 100 years ago. Horses had been around for 1000's of years, and will likely be around 1000's more. But now no one, save maybe the Amish, a few Park Police, and the Cowboy Church Preacher rides one to "work."

Only resistance is usually established Habits. And those die out over around 40 years, typically (generation shift and replacement).

Same on Coal. There may be plenty of Coal, but no new thinking folks with any long-term sense would want to continue to dig, and pollute with it.

The renewable options are just Cheaper, Faster, Cleaner . . . and Better. Only thing keeping US stuck for a little while is "habit." We have to let the Old Plants, Old Operations, and Old Operators "die off" and the new generation shift is already ready.

Now are you ready to talk about what the Proverb "make hay while the Sun shines" means in this domain?
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Old 11-03-2015, 05:39 AM
 
Location: DC
6,530 posts, read 6,468,965 times
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A recent energy analysis by Bloomberg's New Energy Finance group showed that renewables are starting to affect the dispatch of coal fired plants. Their conclusion is that renewables will force coal plants to lower and lower capacity factors, further undermining the economic viability of building coal-fired generation.
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