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Old 10-14-2015, 08:47 PM
 
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That assumes that those taxes would go to help renewable energy development.

Since it is a tax and that tax is collected by the government, what are the chances it would help at all?

When a business is taxed, say an oil company, it doesn't pay the tax, customers do. Same with fines, the business always recovers the fine monies from customers.
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Old 10-15-2015, 07:46 AM
 
Location: DC
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It makes the alternative fossil fuel more expensive. That make renewables more competitive. Duh
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Old 10-15-2015, 11:47 AM
 
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It didn't work in Australia.

Goodbye to the all pain, no gain carbon tax - The Drum (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Old 10-19-2015, 12:49 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
It makes the alternative fossil fuel more expensive. That make renewables more competitive. Duh
Yes, that's the story given by our governor in his failed attempt at that tax, increase the cost and reduce consumption. Instead we just got another 7 cent gas tax increase.
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Old 10-19-2015, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Billings, MT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
It makes the alternative fossil fuel more expensive. That make renewables more competitive. Duh
How about instead of making fossil fuels more expensive with higher taxes, we make renewables LESS expensive, giving people an incentive to use them?
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Old 10-20-2015, 06:21 AM
 
Location: DC
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Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
Yes, that's the story given by our governor in his failed attempt at that tax, increase the cost and reduce consumption. Instead we just got another 7 cent gas tax increase.
Hint for you: the laws of economics work as well as the law of gravity.
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Old 10-20-2015, 06:23 AM
 
Location: DC
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Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
How about instead of making fossil fuels more expensive with higher taxes, we make renewables LESS expensive, giving people an incentive to use them?
Both work. But subsidizing alternative fuels ultimately has scalability issues.
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:27 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,479 posts, read 6,112,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Year2525 View Post
That assumes that those taxes would go to help renewable energy development.

Since it is a tax and that tax is collected by the government, what are the chances it would help at all?

When a business is taxed, say an oil company, it doesn't pay the tax, customers do. Same with fines, the business always recovers the fine monies from customers.
The carbon tax and the "cap and trade" revenues have one purpose; to redistribute wealth. The environment is the cover.
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:25 AM
 
Location: DC
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Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
The carbon tax and the "cap and trade" revenues have one purpose; to redistribute wealth. The environment is the cover.
Cap and trade is the most effective program EPA has ever administered for the reduction of SOx and NOx. It was a great idea suggested by Republicans. It establishes a market and allows the market to work.
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:24 PM
 
1,121 posts, read 1,039,408 times
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Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
The carbon tax and the "cap and trade" revenues have one purpose; to redistribute wealth. The environment is the cover.
Wealth redistribution isn't a bad thing. I see taxes and conspicuous consumption as benign agents of redistribution. My main reason for this is because there's a tendency for the wealth to head in one direction; The rich get richer and the poor get poorer without intervention. It use to be the proletariat versus the owners of production. But a middle-class emerged through policy intervention including labor regulations, financial engineering, emergence of a service industry, social welfare systems, and retirement planning. I believe we are in the tired late stages post New-Deal and we are regressing back to a proletariat/bourgeois paradigm. However, the difference is that middle-class folks have a way to buy into the means of production by entrepreneurship and stock ownership…the lower-middle class and working class are greatly disadvantaged and the wealthy have a huge advantage.

In regards to the OP's post, I think we evaluate things in terms of economics too often. I guess it's natural being a capitalistic society, but there are other perspectives to consider. Renewables were not economically viable for years, but through government subsidies, production improvements, and consumption, we are seeing some renewables take off. Solar is so much better and cheaper than it was 40 years ago and I think it's the ultimate solution for local energy production. You're right that businesses and utilities have the power to pass their costs onto the consumers unless there are alternatives available to the consumer.
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