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Old 12-07-2015, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,680 posts, read 49,437,227 times
Reputation: 19129

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoGuy View Post
Test it....some found their gensets didn't work. Modern gensets are generally built to last 500 hours....
You would burn through 500 hours of use in the first year.
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:25 AM
 
Location: DC
6,525 posts, read 6,456,852 times
Reputation: 3137
Instead of complaining about surges, buy a surge suppressor.
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Old 12-07-2015, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 7,327,156 times
Reputation: 13779
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan View Post
Linda_d, I think you are mistaken. When someone is on a water utility they are paying for the water that enters their house everyday, same thing with electricity. They are true daily requirements from a purchasing POV. I may get billed by the electric or water utility monthly but I am incurring the purchased cost of the water or electricity daily.

Like Annuvin says above, I am also in the early stages of finding alternatives to help ween myself off of these shared systems.

You seem to be confusing daily purchasing with daily use. I don't purchase food everyday. I eat food everyday but I only purchase it weekly at most. I don't purchase clothing everyday. I wear it everyday but I only require new clothing items a handful of times per year. Most of my clothing items provide months or even years of use. Same thing with shoes, I wear them almost every day but I only purchase at most one pair a year. I alternate several pairs depending on my activities that day (athletics versus a day at the office versus yardwork versus a casual activity) and I receive multiple years of use from most of my footwear. Same thing with tools and electronics. I don't purchase them daily like water or electricity and most of them give me years of intensive use.

Very poor analogies.
If you are trying to be "free of 'the man'", then you damn well better be sure that you're not dependent on things that "the man" makes it possible for you to get. How do you think all the things that you don't purchase daily get to whatever venue you get them from? How are they produced? You aren't "weening" yourself off "shared systems" at all, but just deluding yourself.

If you want to say that "I want to be off-grid because I want to have a smaller carbon footprint" or "I want to save money on my electric bill" or "I want to use less energy generated from coal" or "I live too far from public power to make it cost efficient to run poles and wires", then say that. Pretending that you can live "independently" of the social and economic system anywhere, especially in a First or Second World nation, is just poppycock. People were tied to their social and economic systems 2500 years ago, albeit those systems were much simpler than today.
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,680 posts, read 49,437,227 times
Reputation: 19129
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Instead of complaining about surges, buy a surge suppressor.
Power strips are 'surge protectors' once.
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Old 12-07-2015, 09:33 AM
 
Location: DC
6,525 posts, read 6,456,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Power strips are 'surge protectors' once.
Power strips are often just toys.

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Old 12-07-2015, 09:59 AM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,871,871 times
Reputation: 11419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
If you are trying to be "free of 'the man'", then you damn well better be sure that you're not dependent on things that "the man" makes it possible for you to get. How do you think all the things that you don't purchase daily get to whatever venue you get them from? How are they produced? You aren't "weening" yourself off "shared systems" at all, but just deluding yourself.

If you want to say that "I want to be off-grid because I want to have a smaller carbon footprint" or "I want to save money on my electric bill" or "I want to use less energy generated from coal" or "I live too far from public power to make it cost efficient to run poles and wires", then say that. Pretending that you can live "independently" of the social and economic system anywhere, especially in a First or Second World nation, is just poppycock. People were tied to their social and economic systems 2500 years ago, albeit those systems were much simpler than today.
Like the shared system that includes your bank account?

The delusion is that the "shared system" operators and their political hacks are convincing or trying to convince everyone that the shared systems are the reason for climate change and that by simply sharing more of your money, they will be able to spread it around and reduce the effects of these shared systems they created in the first place.

Shared system simply allow those who want to use more than they should to blend in and be supported by those who do not. There is no sharing going on, there is plenty of taking though.

When you stop wanting to share my stuff and share more of yours, then we can talk about it.
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Land of the Great Bears
3,487 posts, read 1,913,876 times
Reputation: 3795
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
How do you think all the things that you don't purchase daily get to whatever venue you get them from?
He specified daily, so I would assume he's fully aware of the non daily connections you've brought up.

It may provide relief, or satisfaction, to not need these systems on a daily basis for some people, and I applaud anyone who attempts to consume less in a world that is vastly over consuming its resources.

I agree that it's practically impossible to fully retreat from the modern world, though there may still be some native peoples who choose to live this way. Amazonian Indians, for example.

For a great read on the collision between modern society and the original way of life, allow me to pitch one of my favorite books, "Ordinary Wolves", by Seth Kantner. The author himself was growing up in the Alaskan arctic when this transition occurred during the 1960's-1980's.

"I've not read anything that so captures the contrast between the wild world and our ravaging consumer culture. Ordinary Wolves is painful and beautiful" -Louise Erdrich
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Old 12-07-2015, 01:32 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,871,871 times
Reputation: 11419
Off-grid living does not have to be 3rd world living. Most people associate off-grid not with doing without all modern connection of conveniences but with being mostly self sufficient when it comes to power, food and other mostly essential things.

Much of what is considered essential for life of any quality isn't required to come from a shared resource. Of course not everyone can go-off-grid so to speak but for those that can, the lifestyles of many would surprise a lot of people. They aren't taking urine baths, washing their hands with sand or anything like that.
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Old 12-07-2015, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
14,661 posts, read 9,709,922 times
Reputation: 12210
Has anyone on his death bed been heard saying I wish I had used less electricity?
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:48 PM
 
Location: The Borderlands
196 posts, read 128,446 times
Reputation: 388
I've lived in all kinds of houses, in all kinds of weather; under a variety of circumstances. You know what appeals to me? Options.

If I can't pay the electric bill and they shut me off, damn if I want to be living in an all electric house. If the heat pump can't keep up with the weather outside, I want the added benefit of a secondary heat source to supplement it because cold sucks.Solar panels just make sense if it means I'm not paying another huge monthly bill to another company that can not guarantee service. We fork over thousands to companies for services and products that suck so I don't see how saving a bit somewhere can do any harm. Besides, until the gov't taxes the sun, it's free.I like the idea of being able to keep it simple and close to home. Know where my food comes from, who my neighbors are and things like that.

It would be nice to find a grey area between on and off grid IMO.
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