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Old 03-23-2016, 07:39 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,034,882 times
Reputation: 5940

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Somebody, somewhere had to put up $15000 for your system. They lost $51,000 by not investing it. Had they invested it and just gave you a gift of paying your grid power bill for 20 yrs, they'd still be $15,000 ahead and still earning cmpd interest.

[and, yes, I understand we're ignoring inflation. But grid rates are determined by govt regs. They have not nearly kept up with inflation. When I was a kid, an electric bill represented a significantly large portion of a working class paycheck. Not so anymore, even with all the new electronic devices that we've all come to rely on. OTOH- you are conserving well and only using 750k-'hr/m-- 25% below the natl average. We'd be talking about a $25,000 investment to supply that, magnifying the computed differences.]
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:22 AM
 
Location: DC
6,507 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Somebody, somewhere had to put up $15000 for your system. They lost $51,000 by not investing it. Had they invested it and just gave you a gift of paying your grid power bill for 20 yrs, they'd still be $15,000 ahead and still earning cmpd interest.

[and, yes, I understand we're ignoring inflation. But grid rates are determined by govt regs. They have not nearly kept up with inflation. When I was a kid, an electric bill represented a significantly large portion of a working class paycheck. Not so anymore, even with all the new electronic devices that we've all come to rely on. OTOH- you are conserving well and only using 750k-'hr/m-- 25% below the natl average. We'd be talking about a $25,000 investment to supply that, magnifying the computed differences.]

I think the issue of whether an investment in a rooftop PV systems is financially advantageous to the homeowner has been settled.
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Old 03-23-2016, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,630 posts, read 49,281,484 times
Reputation: 19009
The OP was about whether these energy sources were 'sustainable'. Not whether they could make a profit.

I do not think anyone has tried to imply that solar-power was profitable.

It presents an option to help us to get away from petroleum fuels.
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Old 03-24-2016, 06:24 AM
 
Location: DC
6,507 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
The OP was about whether these energy sources were 'sustainable'. Not whether they could make a profit.

I do not think anyone has tried to imply that solar-power was profitable.

It presents an option to help us to get away from petroleum fuels.
We use very little petroleum fuel in the electricity business. Coal and natural gas are the fossil fuels of the industry.
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Old 03-24-2016, 09:14 AM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,828,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post

It presents an option to help us to get away from petroleum fuels.
jah. Like DC noted, little petroleum used in Electricity Generation (usually islands, and back-up generation)

The REAL TRICK to get US off Petroleum . . . is getting rid of the Internal Combustion Engines.

Sort of like Horses, Hay, Oats, and Manure . . . ICEs and Petro are a package deal.

So. . . . Replace the ICEs with Electric Motors . . . and the Oil Addiction goes bye-bye.
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Old 03-24-2016, 01:00 PM
 
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
4,071 posts, read 2,890,350 times
Reputation: 1935
My fellow submarine veteran wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
The OP was about whether these energy sources were 'sustainable'. Not whether they could make a profit.

I do not think anyone has tried to imply that solar-power was profitable.

It presents an option to help us to get away from petroleum fuels.
Shipmate, it will be profitable when the solar panels become cheap enough! It is coming soon!

And, I support replacing all fossil fuel power plants with nuclear fission! Assuming they are operated by Navy Submariner Nukes! I would think anybody who was a nuke ET, reactor operator, etc., on a boat could easily get a job in the nuclear power industry.

I think the 4th Gen reactors sound very good. "Intrinsically safe" with passive cooling.
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Old 03-24-2016, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,630 posts, read 49,281,484 times
Reputation: 19009
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutrino78x View Post
My fellow submarine veteran wrote:

Shipmate, it will be profitable when the solar panels become cheap enough! It is coming soon!

And, I support replacing all fossil fuel power plants with nuclear fission! Assuming they are operated by Navy Submariner Nukes! I would think anybody who was a nuke ET, reactor operator, etc., on a boat could easily get a job in the nuclear power industry.

I think the 4th Gen reactors sound very good. "Intrinsically safe" with passive cooling.
ETs rarely have difficulty finding employment.

I would prefer to see properly designed and operated nuclear power plants to take over all commercial electricity production.
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:25 AM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,828,499 times
Reputation: 3955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
ETs rarely have difficulty finding employment.

I would prefer to see properly designed and operated nuclear power plants to take over all commercial electricity production.
"properly designed and operated nuclear power plants"

does that exist in the Real World?

I mean by a real absolute measure?

Is there ANY real plan to clean up the mess afterwards (short of dumping on future generations?)
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:34 PM
 
Location: DC
6,507 posts, read 6,426,164 times
Reputation: 3107
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutrino78x View Post
My fellow submarine veteran wrote:



Shipmate, it will be profitable when the solar panels become cheap enough! It is coming soon!

And, I support replacing all fossil fuel power plants with nuclear fission! Assuming they are operated by Navy Submariner Nukes! I would think anybody who was a nuke ET, reactor operator, etc., on a boat could easily get a job in the nuclear power industry.

I think the 4th Gen reactors sound very good. "Intrinsically safe" with passive cooling.
Chief Engineer here. Nukes are too expensive. It's ideal for the Navy, but way too expensive for the future of land based power generation. Even 50 years into the technology, you can't get one built without huge subsidies and risk shifting away from the investors.

Last edited by DCforever; 03-25-2016 at 01:32 PM..
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Old 03-26-2016, 12:17 PM
 
191 posts, read 134,613 times
Reputation: 411
This OP started as a vague, poorly defined proposition. Then, after an obligatory citation of the First Law, it quickly spun into a grab-bag of preconceptions about our favorite energy sources. Obviously we all want to discuss this, but let's try to keep it a single subject or question. Can we all agree on that?
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