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Old 03-20-2016, 06:27 AM
 
Location: New York Area
15,680 posts, read 6,187,447 times
Reputation: 12234

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiseManOnceSaid View Post
So what's the difference between a wind lobbyist and a coal lobbyist?
A wind lobbyist seeks subsidies. A coal lobbyist seeks to preserve what might be an environmentally insensitive industry against government shutdown but is not seeking subsidies.
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Old 03-20-2016, 09:24 AM
 
5 posts, read 2,193 times
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Residential cats kill 100 times more birds than Wind Turbines; that's a retarded argument. If you want to save birds why not start with the elephant in the room?

The ones in California that were built in the 80's were built in a migration path, they do studies on that stuff now. It's largely irrelevant. Buildings/Windows kill birds at the same rate.

That said, They can fill up the flatlands in TX/IA/KS etc and the ocean all they want, stay out of the mountains! I hate how they put them in the White Mountains in NE and the Mountains in New Mexico, one we did was at 8000 feet. The ones Near Pincher Creek by Waterton National park are an eyesore as well.

Honestly it's the most cost effective green option we have at this point, they've made a lot of progress on them in the last 5-10 years. Solar farms take up a lot of room and are ineffient compared to wind farms. We still have a long ways to go with Solar energy before we can afford to make it a widespread option. It's improving though.

Hopefully we can find better alternatives in the future but this is the now, there's no reason to regress for a few hippies that are raging against the machine.

Every Wind project I've worked on has been closely watched by government environment and subcontractors. We've had to re-route collection lines due to milk weeds and turtles.

Last edited by JamesEight4; 03-20-2016 at 09:37 AM..
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Old 03-21-2016, 07:49 AM
 
Location: DC
6,510 posts, read 6,434,844 times
Reputation: 3112
Rooftop solar is the way to go:

1. Encumbers no space
2. Economic today @ $#/watt installed
3. Provides energy when most needed.
4. Relieves pressure on transmission grids.

Wind has it's role, especially night time when the wind resource is most prevalent and obviously we have little or no pv.
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Old 03-21-2016, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,648 posts, read 49,319,037 times
Reputation: 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
... Wind has it's role, especially night time when the wind resource is most prevalent and obviously we have little or no pv.
Wind is most prevalent at night?



I know that you have taken to using the phrase 'erroneous' to mean factual, but this seems a bit of a stretch.

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Old 03-21-2016, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,574 posts, read 5,471,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Wind is most prevalent at night?



I know that you have taken to using the phrase 'erroneous' to mean factual, but this seems a bit of a stretch.

I think he/she was saying that wind is most important at night, since there is no solar power at night.

However, there are many locations where the wind is stronger at night than during the day, especially a few hundred feet above the ground where wind turbine blades are located.
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Old 03-21-2016, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,648 posts, read 49,319,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
I think he/she was saying that wind is most important at night, since there is no solar power at night.
'prevalent' could mean important I guess.



Quote:
... However, there are many locations where the wind is stronger at night than during the day, especially a few hundred feet above the ground where wind turbine blades are located.
I did not know that. I had assumed the wind blows around the clock.

I know that wind is stronger up higher, which is why wind mills around me work better if they are placed higher.
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Old 03-21-2016, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,574 posts, read 5,471,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I did not know that. I had assumed the wind blows around the clock.

I know that wind is stronger up higher, which is why wind mills around me work better if they are placed higher.
Land heats up during the day, which increases turbulent mixing, which tends to slow the wind a few hundred feet up (where wind turbine blades are typically located). Right at the ground (where we live) winds will tend to increase during the day (as you've probably noticed), but said stronger wind is gustier which isn't as good for power production. Essentially, the heating of the ground via the sun helps mix the faster wind aloft down the ground.

On a clear night, when the ground cools off rapidly, the wind just above the ground can really crank up, since the warmer, faster air can "glide" overtop the smooth layer of cold air at the ground.

Over water, it's a whole different ball game.

Google "boundary layers" to read more. It's a whole subset of fluid mechanics, aerodynamics, and meteorology. It's pretty neat stuff.
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Old 03-21-2016, 03:10 PM
 
Location: DC
6,510 posts, read 6,434,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Wind is most prevalent at night?



I know that you have taken to using the phrase 'erroneous' to mean factual, but this seems a bit of a stretch.

You should look at the production data. Onshore wind is more prevalent at night at the height of modern turbines. There is a lot of variability in onshore wind and there are certainly plenty of exceptions, but as an overall resource it is a night time phenomenon. Offshore winds have different patterns.

Examples that I have are client proprietary data that can't be shared, but there is certain to be some stuff on the Internet. It's not an unknown phenomenon.
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Old 03-21-2016, 03:11 PM
 
Location: DC
6,510 posts, read 6,434,844 times
Reputation: 3112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
I think he/she was saying that wind is most important at night, since there is no solar power at night.

However, there are many locations where the wind is stronger at night than during the day, especially a few hundred feet above the ground where wind turbine blades are located.
No I mean over the course of a year more energy produced at night than during the day.
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Old 03-21-2016, 04:48 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,680 posts, read 6,187,447 times
Reputation: 12234
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesEight4 View Post
Honestly it's the most cost effective green option we have at this point, they've made a lot of progress on them in the last 5-10 years. Solar farms take up a lot of room and are ineffient compared to wind farms. We still have a long ways to go with Solar energy before we can afford to make it a widespread option. It's improving though.
And what do we do for storage when the wind isn't blowing? And what do we do to ensure adequate supplies for peaks?

This sounds well intentioned but impractical.

Last edited by jbgusa; 03-21-2016 at 05:41 PM..
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