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The point is that there is ALWAYS a fossil fired unit running someplace or ready to start.
This is a real asset swinging with renewables. We are still quantifying the added cost in O&M due to swinging a base load unit same thing goes for Monticello nuclear
Sherlock Holmes would view this comment and conclude like many of us already have that the liberal interest in environmentalism is dominated by their agenda for economic transformation of the world. Greens are really Reds.
my54ford. Why is pumped storage of electrical energy not mentioned in these discussions? All a utility needs is a mountain, some reversible pump/turbines, a lot of concrete and a relatively small water supply. It is however used extensively in the northeast US. Germany would be a perfect place for pumped storage. they have both mountains and rivers.
This technology is nearly instantly available (OK minutes not seconds) and other then construction effects is relatively environmentally benign. It is also remarkably efficient with nearly 75% of the pumping energy available as electricity. That is better then chemical batteries.
my54ford. Why is pumped storage of electrical energy not mentioned in these discussions? All a utility needs is a mountain, some reversible pump/turbines, a lot of concrete and a relatively small water supply. It is however used extensively in the northeast US. Germany would be a perfect place for pumped storage. they have both mountains and rivers.
This technology is nearly instantly available (OK minutes not seconds) and other then construction effects is relatively environmentally benign. It is also remarkably efficient with nearly 75% of the pumping energy available as electricity. That is better then chemical batteries.
Pumped storage is indeed a potential option. We actually had a pumped storage project in the works a few year ago. When we told the State that we would have to dredge the bottom of Minnesota side of Lake Pepin some of Industrial Giants in the TC's lobbied against it because of potential pollutants in the mud (left by whom I wonder?) Almost impossible to get a permit for it here now....
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the point is that there is always a fossil fired unit running someplace or ready to start.
This is a real asset swinging with renewables. We are still quantifying the added cost in o&m due to swinging a base load unit same thing goes for monticello nuclear
my54ford. Why is pumped storage of electrical energy not mentioned in these discussions? All a utility needs is a mountain, some reversible pump/turbines, a lot of concrete and a relatively small water supply. It is however used extensively in the northeast US. Germany would be a perfect place for pumped storage. they have both mountains and rivers.
You can do that but now you have the added costs of a dam, pumps, generators and your efficiency takes a very large hit too. In addition to that if the goal is to eliminate fossil fuels how much capacity and storage do you require?
Other than sea level, it's already elevated. Assuming an ample water supply the prudent path would be use it at it's current elevation.
Last edited by thecoalman; 05-18-2016 at 08:22 AM..
my54ford. Why is pumped storage of electrical energy not mentioned in these discussions? All a utility needs is a mountain, some reversible pump/turbines, a lot of concrete and a relatively small water supply. It is however used extensively in the northeast US. Germany would be a perfect place for pumped storage. they have both mountains and rivers.
This technology is nearly instantly available (OK minutes not seconds) and other then construction effects is relatively environmentally benign. It is also remarkably efficient with nearly 75% of the pumping energy available as electricity. That is better then chemical batteries.
There are actually very few appropriate sites for pumped storage. You need more than a mountain. You need a location where you can locate an upper reservoir of sufficient capacity to make the capital costs worthwhile. They are also complex to site. The environmental and safety considerations are not entirely benign.
I seem to recall The Germans run @600-800 Mws of hydro and @2500Mws of pumped storage
Last edited by my54ford; 05-19-2016 at 10:57 AM..
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