Tesla Charging Stations Outnumber Gas Stations in NYC

[Philip T]

Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto

The Stone Age ended when easier, cheaper, better materials came along. Alternative energies are none of the above. A recent study cited in on the other thread shows a new solar plant would cost more than 10x the cost of a new gas-fired plant. It would also be more intrusive on the environment.

Slow down a second. You really do not follow what you have cited (with the apparent "Free" Natural Gas) is just about a parody -- or if real -- was written by dummies for dummies?

Real question -- you really did not follow that? Where does the "Free" Natural Gas come from?

The Free Sunlight Falls out of the sky daily just about everywhere most humans actually live.

Over the Service Life (about 25 years) the total cost of owning and operating the Natural Gas Plant would cost about 3 to 5 times as much as the Solar.

And I agree with you regarding Land Use.

Distributed Renewable Generation -- like say Solar over commercial roofs and parking lots -- that uses NO Land -- and where the Power is Generated close to the End User is FAR BETTER than Central Plant Solar -- which may have to sent 100's of miles. But that wipes out the Corporate Utility Cash Flow. Such a problem.

I can't wait to see the Indy 500 go electric. Instead of pit crews feverishly changing tires and pouring in fuel, they'll be sitting there on barca lounges, smoking pipes, reading the paper or playing bridge while the car is plugged into the outlet for an hour ;-)

Welcome to 1980.

About the time Rechargeable Cordless Power Tools came out.

Did you ever notice that most of the commercial Rechargeable Tool Kits come with TWO Batteries?

One Battery in the Charger, while the other battery is in use? hmmmmm. Let's think about that for a minute.

Well, probably a minute is too long. Batteries swap out in Seconds.

Means my Electric just beat your Oil Burner.

In and out of the pits, as well as around the track.

Real Question? How old are you?

I don't mean to pry or be too personal -- just seems you have the Old Dog + New Tricks problem?

[guidoLaMoto]

My Indy reference was meant to be humorous.

Yes, I am an old flatus--old enough to to remember how things were 60 yrs ago and how we've advanced, but more importantly- how that advancement has plateaued. It took 55 yrs to go from the first powered flight to the first space flight, then 10 more yrs to the first moon landing. We haven't been back to the moon in 40 yrs.

Battery technology hasn't really advance a whole heckuvalot in the last 50 yrs. Solar cell tech has made only minor improvements over its whole lifetime.

All growth phenomena follow a sigmoid curve, approaching the limiting capacity asymptotically. Until a new break thru and fresh paradigm comes up, I think we're really close to our limit in energy tech.

Your point about continuing cost of fuel as opposed to sunlight is well taken. But at 10x start-up & replacement cost for the solar array, fossil is still the most economical. (Just like I've argued here about personal PV systems: just about the time they've paid for themselves, they have to be replaced.)

It's not a matter of "either fossil or alternatives." It's a matter of judicious use of both. Fossil fuels won't kill us and alternatives won't save us.

[vision33r]

It's not profitable to have a gas station in NYC because the land is more valuable having something on it and stacked as high as possible.

[jate88]

Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto

(Just like I've argued here about personal PV systems: just about the time they've paid for themselves, they have to be replaced.)

I thought we made a lot of advancements in solar power over the past decade.

[guidoLaMoto]

Originally Posted by jate88

I thought we made a lot of advancements in solar power over the past decade.

Thanks to child & slave labor and the use of coal for production in China, the cost of solar cells has come down considerably, but the technology in today's product hasn't improved a whole heckuvalot since the 1960s--> 60 yrs ago.

1957-- first cells with 8% efficiency
1980-- first cells with 20% efficiency
2018--we're still at 20% efficiency except under unusual lab conditions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_solar_cells

[JONOV]

But how does the number of stations compare to the number of pumps? It seems they're measuring each plug a as a charging station, when each gas station has a minimum of four pumps if not more.