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Old 08-03-2016, 09:33 AM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,830,816 times
Reputation: 11419

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Tesla makes bid for Solar City. No one wants Solar City, it had a flawed business model and the other big names are eating it's lunch...breakfast and dinner too.

Tesla's battery factory, a joke. Nothing is going on over there. Literally nothing. There are the PR shots but not much else.

Tesla's cars are outdated and look like it. Musk is saying Tesla will need billions to refresh and update. No kidding.

The Tesla scam won't hit until after the elections but then watch out. Another Solyndra.

The whole Solar City battery thing? A flop. No one wants it because no one needs it. As big utilities keep diving in deeper and deeper into solar, the need for anyone to buy Solar City batteries is just a pipe dream. Leasing panels? Another flop business model.

Who in their right mind would buy a house with an existing lease to Solar City when you can just make the previous owner eat it and then get new, better panels installed and own them?

E-Cars and solar for the house are worthy ideas but Tesla and Solar City aren't the companies to do it. They have sucked untold millions out of the government to put up a facade of progress (all of it courtesy of you the taxpayer) and haven't innovated anything. All their patents are nothing more than rehashes of what they got from NASA and other government entities

All this solar this and that makes no difference, in the end the same utility companies that run energy now will run all solar production as well and the benefit to the consumer will be zilch.

Global warming? That is the least concern. Look around, the massive human migrations are doing more to damage the environment than any fumes coming from the tail pipe of cars. Entire populations are migrating, you think any of them care about global warming?
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Old 08-03-2016, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Portal to the Pacific
5,040 posts, read 5,038,727 times
Reputation: 6206
I don't care about what migrants think.
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Old 08-03-2016, 12:02 PM
 
1,294 posts, read 605,736 times
Reputation: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
Tesla makes bid for Solar City. No one wants Solar City, it had a flawed business model and the other big names are eating it's lunch...breakfast and dinner too.

Tesla's battery factory, a joke. Nothing is going on over there. Literally nothing. There are the PR shots but not much else.

Tesla's cars are outdated and look like it. Musk is saying Tesla will need billions to refresh and update. No kidding.

The Tesla scam won't hit until after the elections but then watch out. Another Solyndra.

The whole Solar City battery thing? A flop. No one wants it because no one needs it. As big utilities keep diving in deeper and deeper into solar, the need for anyone to buy Solar City batteries is just a pipe dream. Leasing panels? Another flop business model.

Who in their right mind would buy a house with an existing lease to Solar City when you can just make the previous owner eat it and then get new, better panels installed and own them?

E-Cars and solar for the house are worthy ideas but Tesla and Solar City aren't the companies to do it. They have sucked untold millions out of the government to put up a facade of progress (all of it courtesy of you the taxpayer) and haven't innovated anything. All their patents are nothing more than rehashes of what they got from NASA and other government entities

All this solar this and that makes no difference, in the end the same utility companies that run energy now will run all solar production as well and the benefit to the consumer will be zilch.

Global warming? That is the least concern. Look around, the massive human migrations are doing more to damage the environment than any fumes coming from the tail pipe of cars. Entire populations are migrating, you think any of them care about global warming?
Maybe you're right, maybe not. I don't see a lot of sources sited for what you're saying.
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Old 08-04-2016, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,511 posts, read 5,453,362 times
Reputation: 5284
I'm also a little skeptical of the whole rooftop solar business. But I think the Tesla electric car company will be somewhat successful. I don't think the current share price is justified, but I think there IS a niche market for electric cars. The niche: well-to-do, educated, two-car households that can use the electric car for commuting and errands, and use the gasoline car for long trips.
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Old 08-04-2016, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,624 posts, read 49,268,735 times
Reputation: 19004
What is 'best' for the nation, the economy, the planet? Gets debated a lot. There are many opinions on these topics.

I have no idea if Tesla will survive. I have no idea of Solar City will survive.

I generally dislike anything that involves tax subsidies. A business should thrive or fail based on it's business model, and NEVER based on tax subsidies. Taxing the masses to give money to a select few, seems to usually end up as a scam.

For me personally I like solar power, so I have a solar power array powering our house. Is solar power the answer for our nation? I have no idea. I do not think there should be any tax subsidies in the solar industry.

I am in favor of electric cars. We own a hybrid now, and we plan for our next car to be a plug-in. I am not wealthy, it is kind of insulting to say for 'well-to-do'.

My job is to look out for my household. What suits us best is solar power, solar thermal and maybe wind some day.
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Old 08-04-2016, 09:16 AM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,185,287 times
Reputation: 3351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post

I generally dislike anything that involves tax subsidies. A business should thrive or fail based on it's business model, and NEVER based on tax subsidies. Taxing the masses to give money to a select few, seems to usually end up as a scam.

For me personally I like solar power, so I have a solar power array powering our house. Is solar power the answer for our nation? I have no idea. I do not think there should be any tax subsidies in the solar industry.

I am in favor of electric cars. We own a hybrid now, and we plan for our next car to be a plug-in. I am not wealthy, it is kind of insulting to say for 'well-to-do'.
The tax subsides on solar and hybrid technology are what makes them affordable for you today.
Even if you did not get a tax subsidy, tax subsides allowed the necessary R&D and allowed the technology to mature and become affordable.


We have always subsidized new technology, look at transportation.
Railroads moved ahead of horse & buggies because the government gave away the land for railroad right of ways.
Cars replaced the railroad for personal transportation because the government built the roads and highways.
Commercial aviation would have never caught on if the government had not built the airports.


And Tesla and Solar City will do just fine!
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Old 08-04-2016, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,624 posts, read 49,268,735 times
Reputation: 19004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
The tax subsides on solar and hybrid technology are what makes them affordable for you today. Even if you did not get a tax subsidy, tax subsides allowed the necessary R&D and allowed the technology to mature and become affordable.
We would be on solar power today, even if there were no subsidy. Besides, it is a depreciable asset. The IRS has us depreciating the expense over a 7-year period.



Quote:
... We have always subsidized new technology, look at transportation.
Railroads moved ahead of horse & buggies because the government gave away the land for railroad right of ways.
Cars replaced the railroad for personal transportation because the government built the roads and highways.
Commercial aviation would have never caught on if the government had not built the airports.


And Tesla and Solar City will do just fine!
Our governor just vetoed a bill that would have required all residential electric customers to pay an additional $10/month to fund further subsidies to solar power installations. I am glad he vetoed the bill.

If I want solar power I can buy solar power. If you want solar power you can buy it.
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Old 08-04-2016, 02:07 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
29,499 posts, read 54,038,247 times
Reputation: 30708
From a financial perspective, solar does not pencil out even with subsidies in many areas. Here for example, with little sun, large trees shading roofs, and the inexpensive hydro power, and mild climate it just isn't practical. I do have several small solar installations that I use for such things as charging the riding mower battery and running a pond fountain when sunny, but the best areas for solar power are those with a sunny and hot climate where AC is used much of the year, or a cold winter climate that still gets sun and uses electricity for heating.
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Old 08-04-2016, 02:11 PM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,185,287 times
Reputation: 3351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
We would be on solar power today, even if there were no subsidy. Besides, it is a depreciable asset. The IRS has us depreciating the expense over a 7-year period.





Our governor just vetoed a bill that would have required all residential electric customers to pay an additional $10/month to fund further subsidies to solar power installations. I am glad he vetoed the bill.

If I want solar power I can buy solar power. If you want solar power you can buy it.


Of course we can buy it, but it would not be as affordable or as efficient if government subsidizes had not created a large enough market to pay for R&D and technological improvements.


My point being that even when subsidize end consumers still benefit.
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Portal to the Pacific
5,040 posts, read 5,038,727 times
Reputation: 6206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
From a financial perspective, solar does not pencil out even with subsidies in many areas. Here for example, with little sun, large trees shading roofs, and the inexpensive hydro power, and mild climate it just isn't practical. I do have several small solar installations that I use for such things as charging the riding mower battery and running a pond fountain when sunny, but the best areas for solar power are those with a sunny and hot climate where AC is used much of the year, or a cold winter climate that still gets sun and uses electricity for heating.
But the overwhelming proportion of your electricity is generated by hydro. I think it would be a shame not to point that out.
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