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Old 12-19-2016, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
176 posts, read 252,381 times
Reputation: 218

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
Do you know about the food chain? We all have to eat something. Just eat as low on the food chain as you can. I eat fish/meat once in a while, and make no apologies for it. I eat veggies and a few grains the rest of the time. Works for me.

(I minimize grains because I have inherited the family propensity for metabolic syndrome, including diabetes.)
Have you tried switching to a plant based diet for any length of time? One in which you consume nutrient rich whole grains? I only ask due to the amount of evidence suggesting it's helpfulness in preventing disease such as diabetes.
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Old 12-19-2016, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
18,065 posts, read 8,145,677 times
Reputation: 10470
Quote:
Originally Posted by caitlindwarf View Post
Have you tried switching to a plant based diet for any length of time? One in which you consume nutrient rich whole grains? I only ask due to the amount of evidence suggesting it's helpfulness in preventing disease such as diabetes.
OH, I've been veggie all my adult life (50+ years) and tried being vegan for a period of time. (Missed cheese too much, though.)

A heavily grain-based diet no longer agrees with my digestive tract. Turns out IBS ALSO runs in my family... I do OK with rice and corn and some of the minor grains, as long as I don't eat too much of them, but wheat and its relatives are no longer on the menu in any amounts.

But this is still off-topic, my personal diet has nothing to do with the OP's question.

Veganism is no more or less destructive on the environment than any other agriculture-based diet.
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
176 posts, read 252,381 times
Reputation: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
OH, I've been veggie all my adult life (50+ years) and tried being vegan for a period of time. (Missed cheese too much, though.)

A heavily grain-based diet no longer agrees with my digestive tract. Turns out IBS ALSO runs in my family... I do OK with rice and corn and some of the minor grains, as long as I don't eat too much of them, but wheat and its relatives are no longer on the menu in any amounts.

But this is still off-topic, my personal diet has nothing to do with the OP's question.

Veganism is no more or less destructive on the environment than any other agriculture-based diet.
I was just curious, always interesting to hear from others who have tried it.

That last statement however is false if you're comparing a vegan diet and it's environmental footprint to a meat based one or even a vegetarian one. It's far better for the environment in almost all aspects.
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
176 posts, read 252,381 times
Reputation: 218
Great link on the subject: The carbon foodprint of 5 diets compared – shrinkthatfootprint.com

It's a very simple concept, a diet based on grains, vegetables, fruit, etc is much less resource intensive, destructive, takes less time to grow, etc than seafood, meat, dairy, etc, as well as cutting down on methane and carbon pollution, land use, water use, etc.
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:20 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,937 posts, read 22,225,638 times
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The problem is there is far less land suited to growing the vegetables, fruits, and grains than there is that is suitable for raising livestock. Cattle can be raised on the vast lands of the western U.S., for example, where you won't find much water flowing or vegetables growing. The vegetables need to all be grown in the suitable areas, causing a disproportionate loss of wild lands and wildlife. Worsening drought conditions will only amplify this issue in the future.
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
176 posts, read 252,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
The problem is there is far less land suited to growing the vegetables, fruits, and grains than there is that is suitable for raising livestock. Cattle can be raised on the vast lands of the western U.S., for example, where you won't find much water flowing or vegetables growing. The vegetables need to all be grown in the suitable areas, causing a disproportionate loss of wild lands and wildlife. Worsening drought conditions will only amplify this issue in the future.
The overwhelming majority of our current crops go to feed cattle. You do realize it takes more crops to feed our meat than crops to feed us? Animal agriculture is the leading cause of wildlife extinction. Our meat heavy diets indeed will hurt us as drought conditions worsen as we continue to feed the majority of our crops to cattle we don't need to raise.
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
176 posts, read 252,381 times
Reputation: 218
More reading on the issue as it relates to the OP's question: The World

I'm astounded more people on a green living forum aren't aware of these facts. It's quite surprising.
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:42 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,937 posts, read 22,225,638 times
Reputation: 9026
Quote:
Originally Posted by caitlindwarf View Post
The overwhelming majority of our current crops go to feed cattle. You do realize it takes more crops to feed our meat than crops to feed us? Animal agriculture is the leading cause of wildlife extinction. Our meat heavy diets indeed will hurt us as drought conditions worsen as we continue to feed the majority of our crops to cattle we don't need to raise.

Western cattle are largely grass fed. They free range, eating the naturally growing vegetation out there. We don't need to feed cattle grain and most of our country's land won't support growing vegetables but a lot of it can support cattle. Or bison (which is even better IMHO, imagine seeing bison herds return to the plains, an animal perfectly adapted to living there and a great food source). Conversely, if we all switch to a vegan or vegetarian diet, kiss many endangered species in the east good bye.
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
176 posts, read 252,381 times
Reputation: 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Western cattle are largely grass fed. They free range, eating the naturally growing vegetation out there. We don't need to feed cattle grain and most of our country's land won't support growing vegetables but a lot of it can support cattle. Or bison (which is even better IMHO, imagine seeing bison herds return to the plains, an animal perfectly adapted to living there and a great food source). Conversely, if we all switch to a vegan or vegetarian diet, kiss many endangered species in the east good bye.
They are not largely grass fed, and if we were to return to feeding all of our cattle grass it would take the combined land mass of the ENTIRE North American continent just to feed the US alone, which is obviously impossible. If we all switch to a vegan or vegetarian diet we'd drastically slow down global warming, open up a huge amount of resources, including more food and water, and save many many species of wildlife.

Again, I'm very surprised at the cognitive dissonance here. You seem to be looking over the factual evidence to prove it's environmentally friendly to eat meat. It's not. At all.
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:07 AM
 
4,984 posts, read 5,051,814 times
Reputation: 6322
Quote:
Originally Posted by caitlindwarf View Post
It amuses me how you continue to grasp at straws. I never said anything about permaculture and eating vegan isn't fancy. I'm not sure how you fail to understand the concept. It really concerns me, actually, that you believe eating fruits, vegetables, grains, etc is so fancy and difficult. Do you eat corn? Potatoes? Rice? Pasta? Bread? Tomatoes? Squash? Peppers? Do you solely exist on meat and dairy? Strange how you talk about how "fancy" vegan food is, however I can grow an awful lot of it on the balcony of my apartment. Can you raise, feed and slaughter a cow on a balcony?

What is your direct response to the UN and environmental organizations urging people to reduce their meat and dairy consumption? You don't agree with that concept so do you just think they're making it up? What documentaries on food production have you watched? What books have you read?

Seriously I want to know, because your level of cognitive dissonance is absolutely fascinating.
I grow a good chunk of my food, as did my parents and grandparents, so I dont really need books to figure out what it takes, besides good no fluff books on food growing are rare find. I eat very little meat and dairy. But still I rely on the agribiz for much of my substenence because growing veggies and actually feeding oneself are two big differences. Home gardeners are freed from the necessity to grow their proteins and fats as well as insuring 365 days food supplies, they concentrate on vitamins and fresh in season with perhaps "gourmet" preserving here and there, this creates quite a distorted image of what it takes to feed oneself. If I were to provide the bulk of my substinence year round, I would need to change my dietary preferences to include more meat and diary. It is nearly impossible to survive without those up North unless agribiz takes care of your nutritional needs by providing fancy vegans with globally sourced foodstuff and plenty of sugar/carbs for the vegans down on the economic totem pole.

Last edited by RememberMee; 12-20-2016 at 05:41 AM..
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