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Old 12-09-2017, 06:08 AM
 
Location: DC
6,510 posts, read 6,430,643 times
Reputation: 3112

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The German comparison is silly. Burger King employed more people than the US coal industry.
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:56 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,037,800 times
Reputation: 5940
Very insightful, DC.

https://www.hoursmap.com/s/west%20vi...tions-s1261337 There are 54 Burger Kings in WV. Let's say each employs 30 people, or about 1600 altogether. And let's assume there's an equal number in PA coal mining country...total jobs ~3000 @ ~$9/hr https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay...-Pay-E7201.htm

Meanwhile, 11,000 coal miners lost their jobs in 2016 alone Over 11,000 Coal Miners Lost Their Jobs In Th | The Daily Caller Coal miner wages-- $20-26/hr

Good trade-off. You obviously win this argument.
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Old 12-09-2017, 10:38 AM
 
Location: DC
6,510 posts, read 6,430,643 times
Reputation: 3112
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Very insightful, DC.

https://www.hoursmap.com/s/west%20vi...tions-s1261337 There are 54 Burger Kings in WV. Let's say each employs 30 people, or about 1600 altogether. And let's assume there's an equal number in PA coal mining country...total jobs ~3000 @ ~$9/hr https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay...-Pay-E7201.htm

Meanwhile, 11,000 coal miners lost their jobs in 2016 alone Over 11,000 Coal Miners Lost Their Jobs In Th | The Daily Caller Coal miner wages-- $20-26/hr

Good trade-off. You obviously win this argument.
Tobacco farmers lost their jobs too. The solution isn't to keep doing the wrong thing. The solution is the retrain the workers. Plenty of renewable energy jobs out there.
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Old 12-09-2017, 02:17 PM
 
8,944 posts, read 8,047,583 times
Reputation: 19427
Electric cars are only practical in certain parts of the country, mostly big cities.

Here in Montana according to the DMV, not one Tesla as an example is registered in the state. Wyoming has one, owned by a rancher/well known movie star, that keeps one at his ranch to run to town in the summer when he is in town.

4 Reasons no Electric Cars. In about 5 months out of the year, the cold weather will drain up to 60% of the range that a coastal city can achieve.

Using the electric heater to keep warm reduces the range even more.

Going up and down mountains and hills, reduces the range some more.

They are low slung and are not really designed for use in snow and ice, and are only 2 wheel drive.

From our home we have to make a 100 mile round trip to leave home and go shopping, etc. Other direction 200 miles. And running around town will add 10 to 20 miles to the trip.

We could not even take a quick shopping trip, without having to find somewhere we could recharge to get home. And without 4 wheel drive, and studded snow tires, the car would be useless here about 5 or 6 months per year.

Go to a parking lot here, and you will find that Montana licensed cars will be 75% 4X4/AWD, Pickups and SUVs. And when the snow flies, it is often 100% 4X4 Pickups, and SUVs.

Just think, The 3 highest production vehicles in the USA, are #1--Ford F-150, #2--Silverado Pickup, #3--Dodge Ram Pickup. In fact the Ford F-150 produces and sells, over twice the number of vehicles, as the #4--Regular Auto. And there are many additional model Pickups such as the Ford F-250, and F-350 and even a few foreign models. A majority of them are 4 door cabs and fancy enough to be family daily drivers. You will see dainty 16 year old girls 5 ft. tall and 80 pounds or less, crawl into one of those monster pickups and handle it as well as a similar city girl will a very small sedan or sports car.

They call those pickups and SUVs the most dangerous vehicles on the road. Not that they are dangerous for their drivers and passengers, but dangerous for the out of control little cars city people drive, that run into them in snow storms, etc.

I know, as myself and my wife both in our late 80s, have a Ford F-150 Pickup, and the best selling and best rated SUV for 27 years, the Ford Explorer a larger mid size SUV.

Last edited by oldtrader; 12-09-2017 at 02:26 PM..
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Old 12-09-2017, 02:21 PM
 
8,944 posts, read 8,047,583 times
Reputation: 19427
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Very insightful, DC.

https://www.hoursmap.com/s/west%20vi...tions-s1261337 There are 54 Burger Kings in WV. Let's say each employs 30 people, or about 1600 altogether. And let's assume there's an equal number in PA coal mining country...total jobs ~3000 @ ~$9/hr https://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay...-Pay-E7201.htm
It takes a lot more than 30 employees for average burger restaurant such as Burger Kings, and McDonalds.
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:03 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,037,800 times
Reputation: 5940
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
It takes a lot more than 30 employees for average burger restaurant such as Burger Kings, and McDonalds.
30 would be 10 FT equivalents on 3 shifts a day. Double it if you prefer and we're still 5000 jobs short for the out of work miners. (And if the miners get those jobs, what becomes of the people currently holding those positions?)

Retrain them? To do what in WV? Why didn't they do that in the first place then instead of going in for the dirty, unhealthy, dangerous jobs in the mines? Could it be there is nothing else in WV for them?
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Old 12-10-2017, 06:05 AM
 
Location: DC
6,510 posts, read 6,430,643 times
Reputation: 3112
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Electric cars are only practical in certain parts of the country, mostly big cities.

Here in Montana according to the DMV, not one Tesla as an example is registered in the state. Wyoming has one, owned by a rancher/well known movie star, that keeps one at his ranch to run to town in the summer when he is in town.

4 Reasons no Electric Cars. In about 5 months out of the year, the cold weather will drain up to 60% of the range that a coastal city can achieve.

Using the electric heater to keep warm reduces the range even more.

Going up and down mountains and hills, reduces the range some more.

They are low slung and are not really designed for use in snow and ice, and are only 2 wheel drive.

From our home we have to make a 100 mile round trip to leave home and go shopping, etc. Other direction 200 miles. And running around town will add 10 to 20 miles to the trip.

We could not even take a quick shopping trip, without having to find somewhere we could recharge to get home. And without 4 wheel drive, and studded snow tires, the car would be useless here about 5 or 6 months per year.

Go to a parking lot here, and you will find that Montana licensed cars will be 75% 4X4/AWD, Pickups and SUVs. And when the snow flies, it is often 100% 4X4 Pickups, and SUVs.

Just think, The 3 highest production vehicles in the USA, are #1--Ford F-150, #2--Silverado Pickup, #3--Dodge Ram Pickup. In fact the Ford F-150 produces and sells, over twice the number of vehicles, as the #4--Regular Auto. And there are many additional model Pickups such as the Ford F-250, and F-350 and even a few foreign models. A majority of them are 4 door cabs and fancy enough to be family daily drivers. You will see dainty 16 year old girls 5 ft. tall and 80 pounds or less, crawl into one of those monster pickups and handle it as well as a similar city girl will a very small sedan or sports car.

They call those pickups and SUVs the most dangerous vehicles on the road. Not that they are dangerous for their drivers and passengers, but dangerous for the out of control little cars city people drive, that run into them in snow storms, etc.

I know, as myself and my wife both in our late 80s, have a Ford F-150 Pickup, and the best selling and best rated SUV for 27 years, the Ford Explorer a larger mid size SUV.
The entire population of Montana is only 1 million people. It's smaller than suburbs like San Jose CA. It doesn't matter what happens in Montana.
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Old 12-10-2017, 07:10 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,037,800 times
Reputation: 5940
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
The entire population of Montana is only 1 million people. It's smaller than suburbs like San Jose CA. It doesn't matter what happens in Montana.
Before all the coddled Yuppies & California Moonbeams do away with one million Montanans, maybe it should be pointed out more explicitly what Oldtimer was trying to say: EVs just wouldn't get the job done in Montana, where the distances involved in daily driving, the road, terrain & weather conditions in Montana, and the type of vehicle usage regularly needed in Montana all exclude EVs from usefulness.

It's important to point this out because the Liberal, religious zealot types who are so aggressively advocating the exclusion of tradtional ICEs & fossil fuels seem to be either ignorant of or hostile towards anyone not living the Green Holier-than-Thou lifestyle of the minority TreeHuggers.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,639 posts, read 49,293,953 times
Reputation: 19039
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
... 4 Reasons no Electric Cars. In about 5 months out of the year, the cold weather will drain up to 60% of the range that a coastal city can achieve.
After 5 months the range will be 'drained' by 60%, this statement does not make much sense to me.



Quote:
... Using the electric heater to keep warm reduces the range even more.
We drive hybrids, negative temps do decrease range by about 5%. I am not sure how this is in addition to your previous 'cold weather and coastal decreases of 60%



Quote:
... Going up and down mountains and hills, reduces the range some more.
Climbing does decrease range, and going downhill increases range.



Quote:
... They are low slung and are not really designed for use in snow and ice, and are only 2 wheel drive.
Low clearance has no effect when driving on ice.

Front Wheel Drive vehicles are far superior to Rear Wheel Drive on ice.

There is an EV Farm Utility truck being developed with 15 inch clearance [by Bollinger] if you do need more clearance.



Quote:
... From our home we have to make a 100 mile round trip to leave home and go shopping, etc. Other direction 200 miles. And running around town will add 10 to 20 miles to the trip.

We could not even take a quick shopping trip, without having to find somewhere we could recharge to get home. And without 4 wheel drive, and studded snow tires, the car would be useless here about 5 or 6 months per year.
You are extremely remote. I am 10 from town so a battery charge can easily take me into town and home again.

Studded tires are nearly a necessity in my area.



I do not like my monthly Cost-Of-Living to be so dictated by the Saudis, that is why I like driving electric. I can make it myself on my farm, and I don't need to be paying the Saudis anything.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,639 posts, read 49,293,953 times
Reputation: 19039
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Before all the coddled Yuppies & California Moonbeams do away with one million Montanans, maybe it should be pointed out more explicitly what Oldtimer was trying to say: EVs just wouldn't get the job done in Montana, where the distances involved in daily driving, the road, terrain & weather conditions in Montana, and the type of vehicle usage regularly needed in Montana all exclude EVs from usefulness.

It's important to point this out because the Liberal, religious zealot types who are so aggressively advocating the exclusion of tradtional ICEs & fossil fuels seem to be either ignorant of or hostile towards anyone not living the Green Holier-than-Thou lifestyle of the minority TreeHuggers.
Is there an actual threat of 'coddled Yuppies & California Moonbeams' attacking anyone in Montana?

Your post seems to be expressing a lot of aggression and hatred.
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