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Old 12-10-2017, 11:23 AM
 
1,290 posts, read 572,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Nonetheless, it's true that EVs won't reduce CO2 much until the electricity system is de-carbonized. Nuclear power is the only economical way to completely de-carbonize the electricity system. But nuclear power is pretty unpopular, so it probably won't happen.
This is not quite true at all. Power plants are significantly more efficient at turning carbon-based fuels into electricity than car engines.

30 states get some of their power from nuclear, with half of them generating 25% or more of their power from it.

States like MS, NJ, CT, FL, MA get most of their power from a combination of nuclear and natural gas which generates much less CO2 than oil and carbon.
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Old 12-10-2017, 07:00 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,036,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasLawyer2000 View Post
This is not quite true at all. Power plants are significantly more efficient at turning carbon-based fuels into electricity than car engines.

.
True, but then you must account for energy loss during transmission of the power to the charging station. Ultimately, it has been calculated, that co2 emissions, if you're uninformed enough to think that makes any kind of difference, is greater for an EV, if the electricity is generated from fossil fuel, than just burning the fuel in the vehicle's engine.

The 2nd Law says energy will be lost as you burn the fuel to produce steam, then more will be lost as the steam turns the turbine, then more will be lost as the turning turbine produces electricity, then more will be lost as the electricity travels along its transmission lines, then more will be lost as the electricity powers the EV motors.

For an ICE, a lot of energy is lost as heat after combustion, then more as frictional loss from revolving engine parts and then most importantly the inherent inefficiency of a single combustion stroke powering the ensuing, unpowered exhaust, intake and compression strokes before the net combustion stroke.

The biggest advantage that fossil fuel has its tremendously superior energy density of storage vs electricity.

The advantage of EVs comes when the juice is generated by wind or PV-- but... an ICE getting 20mpg and driven 12,000 mi/yr @ $2.50/gal costs $1500/ yr for fuel. A PV system big enough to provide the power for an equivalent EV costs just about the same per yr, with the disadvantage that the capital for the system has to be coughed up up front. How would you like to pay for your next 20 yrs worth of gasoline all today?
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Old 12-10-2017, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,635 posts, read 49,287,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
... The advantage of EVs comes when the juice is generated by wind or PV-- but... an ICE getting 20mpg and driven 12,000 mi/yr @ $2.50/gal costs $1500/ yr for fuel. A PV system big enough to provide the power for an equivalent EV costs just about the same per yr, with the disadvantage that the capital for the system has to be coughed up up front. How would you like to pay for your next 20 yrs worth of gasoline all today?
I think your math is off there.

You pay for photovoltaic panels once, and they continue to provide power for many years after that.

I did
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Old 12-11-2017, 06:26 AM
 
Location: DC
6,509 posts, read 6,429,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I think your math is off there.

You pay for photovoltaic panels once, and they continue to provide power for many years after that.

I did
Even better to roll it into your mortgage, get a tax deduction for the interest, and pay 3-4% in interest while earning 10% on your invested money.
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Old 12-11-2017, 06:56 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,036,756 times
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We've been over this before: current mortgage rates are 4%+ and your tax rate, unless you're a millionaire (then you wouldn't need the loan) is only in the range of 10%, so you're only going to save ~ $100/yr in taxes while you're paying $1000 in interest. That almost wipes out the interest you earn from investments (you can only count on ~5% long term, not the 10% you suggest)-- and that only if you had the $20-30,000 nut already in the bank. You're coming up short if you only invest the capital monthly for the 20 yr life of the PV array.

AND THEN YOU GOTTA SPEND IT ALL OVER AGAIN AFTER 20 YRS OR SO.
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Old 12-11-2017, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,635 posts, read 49,287,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Even better to roll it into your mortgage, get a tax deduction for the interest, and pay 3-4% in interest while earning 10% on your invested money.
We are depreciating our solar system, the IRS allows a 7 year depreciation.

Even people on a Minimum-Wage income can afford to buy solar power for their homes.

The equipment is known to last for decades, one of our neighbors has been on solar power since the 1980s. That is over 30 years of power so far.
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Old 12-11-2017, 09:05 AM
 
Location: DC
6,509 posts, read 6,429,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
We are depreciating our solar system, the IRS allows a 7 year depreciation.

Even people on a Minimum-Wage income can afford to buy solar power for their homes.

The equipment is known to last for decades, one of our neighbors has been on solar power since the 1980s. That is over 30 years of power so far.
I'm assuming you are operating a business and hence can take depreciation. My comment about using debt is still valid. You can deduct both interest payments and depreciation.

Guido doesn't understand fiance, so it's best just to ignore him. I gave up on education.
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Old 12-11-2017, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,635 posts, read 49,287,779 times
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On various forums I use different handles. Some that denote me as an off-grid farmer, or as a beekeeper in the forest, or a military retiree.

Yes, I am a farmer. Often it seems I can not swing a dead cat without hitting a tax deduction.

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Old 12-11-2017, 01:38 PM
 
Location: DC
6,509 posts, read 6,429,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
On various forums I use different handles. Some that denote me as an off-grid farmer, or as a beekeeper in the forest, or a military retiree.

Yes, I am a farmer. Often it seems I can not swing a dead cat without hitting a tax deduction.

What subs were you on? I served in the Stonewall Jackson during the mid 70s as a engineering officer.
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Old 12-11-2017, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,635 posts, read 49,287,779 times
Reputation: 19019
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
What subs were you on? I served in the Stonewall Jackson during the mid 70s as a engineering officer.
USS George C. Marshall SSBN 654
USS Simon Lake AS-33
USS Casimir Pulaski SSBN 633
USS Alaska SSBN 732

I enlisted in 1976. I completing 17 FBM patrols, 3 years of Law Enforcement duties stateside and 3 years in Italia and Kosovo. I retired in 2001.
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