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Old 10-30-2017, 01:59 AM
 
Location: DC
6,500 posts, read 6,416,175 times
Reputation: 3100

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Wind and solar alone will no more power a country than they would a farm that requires pumped irrigation.
Pumped irrigation was one of the earliest applications of pv that really made a difference. In Nebraska they practically cover the state.
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Old 10-30-2017, 04:05 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,027,807 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineman View Post
Why not use water mills, tides and currents never stop?
This article succinctly explains the concept and lists advantages and disadvantages of tidal power generators: Tidal Energy and how tidal energy creates electricity

In a nutshell: hi construction & maintenance costs of installations exposed to destructive natural forces, located in places remote to the end use of the power generated make it a questionable economic venture, plus certain negative environmental impacts and maybe it's not such a good idea after all.

Once again, it's nice to dream while we sleep, but when awake, we must live in the real world.
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,613 posts, read 49,235,248 times
Reputation: 18982
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
How (Not) to Run a Modern Society on Solar and Wind Power Alone
I have no idea of how to 'run society'.

My farm is okay on Solar Power, after 2 years we are still adjusting to the lifestyle.

We have a plug-in car now, it can go 25 miles on it's charge before the gas engine kicks in. For us that means a trip into town and back home again, all on electric.

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Old 10-31-2017, 02:33 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,357 posts, read 39,651,603 times
Reputation: 23361
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
This article succinctly explains the concept and lists advantages and disadvantages of tidal power generators: Tidal Energy and how tidal energy creates electricity

In a nutshell: hi construction & maintenance costs of installations exposed to destructive natural forces, located in places remote to the end use of the power generated make it a questionable economic venture, plus certain negative environmental impacts and maybe it's not such a good idea after all.

Once again, it's nice to dream while we sleep, but when awake, we must live in the real world.
Sounds a lot like wind power... (i.e. a LOT of difficult maint) 4,000 + parts in (each) generator... We have 2800 MW of installed wind power in our small region, including some of the biggest wind farms in USA. (~1,800 towers)= <6% of our regional power generation (we also have Hydro, Solar, Tidal, NGT and Nuclear. )

Who is gonna climb and replace the moving parts in 10,000+ towers in USA..(subject to nature's very difficult wind, dust, snow, rain, hail, wildfire SMOKE (very corrosive)...) ANSWER: FEW... we already had to pay $1.5m to dismantle worn out turbines placed in the 1980s. We have 4 windpower maint schools in the region. They are full, but the USA does not even have the metalworking expertise to maintain the machines we have installed. Most are owned by foreign Gov who got HUGE subsidies to invest the capital, and reap (RAPE) the generation revenue, in what could have been community owned power, but the deeper pockets won(as usual).

Wind / solar is Not the 'only' answer, but perhaps a very small (and very temporary) contribution.
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Old 10-31-2017, 05:38 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,027,807 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
Wind / solar is Not the 'only' answer, but perhaps a very small (and very temporary) contribution.

Good points.

Alternatives have their niches, like Submariner's situation noted above. But he has limited his use of electricity: most Americans can't get by driving less than 25 miles once a week.

Great Britain has announced plans to go all electric for vehicles over the next 15 yrs. good luck to them-- its calculated to require at least 16000 more mill installations covering an area the size of Scotland to pull it off https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/10/...ric-car-fleet/

Power generation may be about the only thing where industrialization to gain the advantage of the economy of scale doesn't work well.
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,613 posts, read 49,235,248 times
Reputation: 18982
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Good points.

Alternatives have their niches, like Submariner's situation noted above. But he has limited his use of electricity: most Americans can't get by driving less than 25 miles once a week.
Why would anyone limit their driving to once/week?

I drive daily.
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Old 10-31-2017, 04:08 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,357 posts, read 39,651,603 times
Reputation: 23361
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Good points.

Alternatives have their niches, like Submariner's situation noted above. But he has limited his use of electricity: most Americans can't get by driving less than 25 miles once a week.

Great Britain has announced plans to go all electric for vehicles over the next 15 yrs. good luck to them-- its calculated to require at least 16000 more mill installations covering an area the size of Scotland to pull it off https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/10/...ric-car-fleet/

Power generation may be about the only thing where industrialization to gain the advantage of the economy of scale doesn't work well.
Distributed power generation will play a bigger role in the future, as will conservation / technology advances to distribution and use. I do not 'buy-in' to electricity as a savior (since I am in rural USA, and THANK GOODNESS FDR allowed the REA!!! or today we would be DARK (as we are with NO internet))

<25 miles / week will never fly with WY / MT / SD / ND people. (of course they are gratefully not in the category of "most Americans", I have always done far more than 25 mi / day often 500+

My 'free fuel' car will go 1250 miles between topping off. (WVO or Bio-D) since 1976...

I will stay a bit more skeptical of USA advances, since we had plug-in parking and full electric cars at EACH of my companies USA locations in 1976...

progress...
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Old 10-31-2017, 06:29 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,027,807 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Why would anyone limit their driving to once/week?

.
Because they're self-sufficient and happy at home.

Exactly how big is your solar array? It must be huge given that Maine only gets about a single hour equivalent of good sun per day in January and you seem to be able to generate enough to supply your household needs + farm needs + driving needs.

The Chevy Volt battery pack, for example, holds ~11 usable kW-hr of juice and the average family uses ~30kW-hr per day in their home, for ballpark reference figures.
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
30,613 posts, read 49,235,248 times
Reputation: 18982
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Because they're self-sufficient and happy at home.

Exactly how big is your solar array? It must be huge given that Maine only gets about a single hour equivalent of good sun per day in January and you seem to be able to generate enough to supply your household needs + farm needs + driving needs.
You are typing words, but they make no sense. You keep talking fantasy.

Our solar array is 4400 watts and we commonly get good sun from before 8am until after 4pm.
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Old 10-31-2017, 08:57 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
22,357 posts, read 39,651,603 times
Reputation: 23361
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Because they're self-sufficient and happy at home.

Exactly how big is your solar array? It must be huge given that Maine only gets about a single hour equivalent of good sun per day in January and you seem to be able to generate enough to supply your household needs + farm needs + driving needs.

The Chevy Volt battery pack, for example, holds ~11 usable kW-hr of juice and the average family uses ~30kW-hr per day in their home, for ballpark reference figures.
<4kw / day for our 4,000+sf full electric home in a very wicked winter climate (80 mph winds with freezing rain). We are in PNW, so 280 days of cloud cover, yet I use passive solar (as I have since 1970's while in sun intense Colorado)

Be sure to PRACTICE your theories

And listen cautiously to 'reports'.

Many of us have been doing this stuff (for REAL) all our lives (and that is a very LONG time )
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