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Old 11-10-2017, 08:23 AM
 
Location: DC
6,505 posts, read 6,423,574 times
Reputation: 3102

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
And this has happened and will continue to happen without being in a climate pact that requires you to transfer billions of dollars to others.

Look, it's simple, if you realize you need to lose weight then you can improve your diet and exercise more. You don't need to sign a contract with your neighbor where the only binding contract is you pay for his gym membership.
It's in our best interest to assist third world countries. Better USAID than US Defense Department.
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Old 11-10-2017, 08:28 AM
 
Location: DC
6,505 posts, read 6,423,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
The average European is not prosperous, but getting by on the level of a lower average American family: renting, one car, one phone, one TV etc. and having to rely on govt for retirement, not personal investments.

Don't kid yourself. Communism has failed and socialism is failing on a longer time scale.

Why is "sustainability" so important to liberals in matters of ecology, but ignored in matters of economics?
Not what Pew found when they actually looked at the facts.

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Old 11-10-2017, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
11,622 posts, read 8,139,901 times
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I'd say we don't need a league of nations to tell us how to conserve energy, we can do it ourselves.

I think Trump was right to pull us out because we were paying more than our fair share for something that was getting us not much in return.

As long as the car companies keep trying to squeeze the most from a drop of gasoline and the popularity of alternative energy sources stays popular we will keep making strides forward.
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:16 AM
 
9,534 posts, read 4,481,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
It's in our best interest to assist third world countries. Better USAID than US Defense Department.
False logic. The one doesn't preclude the other. If anything, it leads to the other as much of our aid gets diverted into weaponry that ends up getting used against us.

If the US is still one of the largest emissions producers then spending the $10 billion here will make a much larger impact in global emissions levels.

But then, this climate pact really isn't about emissions. It's just another wealth redistribution scheme used by the globalist socialists to transfer money from rich countries to poor countries.

Back in the 70's and 80's this was happening under the guise of IMF and World Bank loans to developing nations to modernize their infrastructure and allow them to create strong economies. What happened is the banana republic leaders stole, squandered, and misappropriated the money to enrich themselves and their cronies and build up their militaries and police to solidify their power. Then by the 90's, with the money gone and their economies still in shambles, the globalist chant became "debt relief". Remember that? Billions upon billions of "loans" were written off by First World countries.

Can anyone name a country that was a "developing nation" 30 years ago that is a prosperous nation today? There is a reason this climate pact uses a 1992 UN list of developing nations.

Well, fool me once... the bankers won't fall for that again. Enter global warming and climate change. Let's create a pact which doesn't mandate any specific emissions cuts but leaves it up to each nation to decide what they want to do. And let's have no penalties if they don't meet their goals. If you read the individual pledges you'll see that all of the poorer nations promise wonderful things "conditional on international support". Heck yeah they are for it.

Which leads to the only concrete detail this pact imposes - a $100 Billion PER YEAR "green fund". With the US and EU funding 25% of it. <Sarcasm On>I'm sure there will be close and competent oversight on this money to make sure it is getting spent appropriately and effectively.<Sarcasm Off>

The world outrage over the US withdrawal is 100% about the money. They couldn't care less about our emissions. But the propaganda machine is very good and has a lot of people believing it's about emissions. Fact is, we could unilaterally pledge to cut our emissions by double what we pledged under the pact and the world would remain just as outraged. It's our $10 Billion per year that they want (and have probably already spent).
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Old 11-10-2017, 09:23 AM
 
9,534 posts, read 4,481,908 times
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What kind of American could possibly think it's a good idea for us to spend two decades converting clean efficient American factories into polluting inefficient Chinese factores, then spend the next two decades paying China a billion dollars a year to convert those factories into clean efficient factories?
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Old 11-10-2017, 03:18 PM
 
146 posts, read 69,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Don't kid yourself. Communism has failed and socialism is failing on a longer time scale.
Your understandings of economics are tragically incomplete. It is ONLY socialism that has achieved and sustained success in the years since WWI. Retreats from socialism have all failed.

By the way, I have more living relatives in Germany than in this country.
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Old 11-10-2017, 03:29 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,032,933 times
Reputation: 5940
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Not what Pew found when they actually looked at the facts.
Meaningless graphic. Percentage of people in each group is relative only to their own country. Poverty is relative. Half the world's population wishes they could live the lifestyle of an American on welfare.

Furthermore, you must consider wages vs cost of living-- A German union auto maker makes 90% the wages of a UAW member and cost of living in Germany is 20% higher than here https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/hamburg -- and Germany is one of the good places to live. Italians are almost broke-- high COL and 50% unemployment rate in the U30 crowd.

BTW- the "income disparity" argument is specious: this isn't 12th century Sherwood Forest. The rich aren't getting richer at the expense of the poor. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor, you know?
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Old 11-10-2017, 03:33 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,032,933 times
Reputation: 5940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifty Percent Off View Post
Your understandings of economics are tragically incomplete. It is ONLY socialism that has achieved and sustained success in the years since WWI. Retreats from socialism have all failed.

By the way, I have more living relatives in Germany than in this country.
What color is the sky in your world? It's blue here on planet Earth.
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Old 11-10-2017, 03:50 PM
 
146 posts, read 69,034 times
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As I said, tragically incomplete.
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Old 11-10-2017, 05:36 PM
 
Location: DC
6,505 posts, read 6,423,574 times
Reputation: 3102
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Meaningless graphic. Percentage of people in each group is relative only to their own country. Poverty is relative. Half the world's population wishes they could live the lifestyle of an American on welfare.

Furthermore, you must consider wages vs cost of living-- A German union auto maker makes 90% the wages of a UAW member and cost of living in Germany is 20% higher than here https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/hamburg -- and Germany is one of the good places to live. Italians are almost broke-- high COL and 50% unemployment rate in the U30 crowd.

BTW- the "income disparity" argument is specious: this isn't 12th century Sherwood Forest. The rich aren't getting richer at the expense of the poor. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor, you know?
Alt-facts are your friend. Europeans middle class live a very comfortable though less materialistic life than Americans.
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