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Old 08-06-2018, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,692 posts, read 14,149,039 times
Reputation: 15868

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Quote:
Originally Posted by teakboat View Post
Actually the threat from any cooling would be much more severe than some degree of warming. A few years ago (when solar cycle 23 was abruptly ending), the wheat belt in western Oklahoma and Kansas experienced somewhat longer, cooler, wetter Winters/Springs for a couple of years. Much of the wheat turned to mush in the fields, and the price of wheat spike sharply.

Any change towards a colder climate would shift the wheat growing zone further south, which would be expensive for humans, as we try to make a living on this planet. Of course other consequences as well. Throughout the history of human civilization, we have tended to prosper and advance during periods of warm climate, and we have tended to die off and regress due to plagues, famines and wars during periods of colder climate.
The last mini-Ice Age had detrimental effects in the Colonies, causing famine in conditions in all 100+ of the New England Colonies, and then near-famine conditions in the several Atlantic Colonies.

The growing season in the region north of what is now Interstate 80 was reduced to just 6 weeks --- the ground did not thaw until late June to permit it to be cleared and plowed, and then 6 weeks to plant and harvest before the first chilling frost killed everything in late August.

The area north of what is now Interstate 70 had a growing season of about 10 weeks.

Even today, that would wreck havoc in the US, even though we no longer rely on the New England States for food production (except dairy).

There was a benefit to the global cooling.

The temperatures in the British Isles were much warmer than present, and mosquitoes proliferated. The British were plagued by Malaria for centuries, right to through the 1500s, until the global cooling period killed off the mosquitoes in the 1600s, and the British Isles have been Malaria-free ever since.
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Old 08-06-2018, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,947 posts, read 7,874,941 times
Reputation: 11164
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Our concern is not that the Earth will not survive, it's that we will not survive. Those peoriods you reference when the earth was hotter had no human civilization. Not really a recommendation.

We know the industrial age is the problem because at its heart the issue is an energy balance problem which we can solve. We know earth is warming, we know greenhouse gases contribute to the warming and we know that much of the increase in greenhouse gases come from anthropogenic sources. We do have the data that shows this. You're obviously not a scientist so what you consider "science" is an uninformed opinion -- not worth much. Your appeal to use of "common sense" shows that we are much better off relying on science.
No, we are not better off relying on “climate” scientists. They have proven to be in ideological lockstep, and form their own echo chamber. “Peer reviewed” climate science is “echo chamber” produced climate science. Climate science as a discipline is debauched and disgraced, with rampant armageddonism and attempted panic induction ruling the day.

Now, even if climate scientists were to actually go back to being real scientists, which is a big if, and even if some of their silliness were accidentally proven to be true, another big if, the result would be the same: We are not abandoning industrial progress. We are not redistributing our wealth to payoff the third world not to develop, we are not rolling back the use of fossil fuels, we will not tolerate excessive oppressive carbon taxes whose effect is to destroy human advancement and prevent the pending industrial revolution of the world’s backward societies.

So my advice to climate “scientists” is to start thinking about adaptation. That is where we need innovation and new ideas. Not regressing to the Dark Ages.

Climate change will do what it will do. It is our job to observe reality, not climate science models which are useless, and adapt to reality, not armageddonist speculation.
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Old 08-06-2018, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,947 posts, read 7,874,941 times
Reputation: 11164
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsuperfly View Post
If corporations are going to get the legal rights of people/individuals, yes they should be taxed as such.
There is no such thing as corporate taxation. All taxes are built into the costs of products and are paid for by We the People. So corporate taxes are effectively hidden additional personal taxes. All corporate income taxes should be abolished.
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Old 08-07-2018, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,271 posts, read 21,115,908 times
Reputation: 24006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Caldwell View Post

It is interesting to speculate what life on Earth will be like when everything within 25 degrees of the equator is uninhabitable.
You're overlooking the altitude factor. Quito, Ecuador lies at 9450 feet in altitude, 15 miles from the Equator. Beautiful weather year round! Only need a sweater occasionally. Same with Bogota, Colombia at 8600 feet.
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Old 08-07-2018, 04:26 AM
 
2,671 posts, read 1,710,377 times
Reputation: 5785

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9W1XSdw4nn8
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Old 08-07-2018, 04:28 AM
 
2,671 posts, read 1,710,377 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
There is no such thing as corporate taxation. All taxes are built into the costs of products and are paid for by We the People. So corporate taxes are effectively hidden additional personal taxes. All corporate income taxes should be abolished.
Non starter. That will never happen.

https://www.ctj.org/fact-sheet-why-w...te-income-tax/
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Old 08-07-2018, 05:05 AM
 
Location: DC
6,509 posts, read 6,427,712 times
Reputation: 3112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
No, we are not better off relying on “climate” scientists. They have proven to be in ideological lockstep, and form their own echo chamber. “Peer reviewed” climate science is “echo chamber” produced climate science. Climate science as a discipline is debauched and disgraced, with rampant armageddonism and attempted panic induction ruling the day.

Now, even if climate scientists were to actually go back to being real scientists, which is a big if, and even if some of their silliness were accidentally proven to be true, another big if, the result would be the same: We are not abandoning industrial progress. We are not redistributing our wealth to payoff the third world not to develop, we are not rolling back the use of fossil fuels, we will not tolerate excessive oppressive carbon taxes whose effect is to destroy human advancement and prevent the pending industrial revolution of the world’s backward societies.

So my advice to climate “scientists” is to start thinking about adaptation. That is where we need innovation and new ideas. Not regressing to the Dark Ages.

Climate change will do what it will do. It is our job to observe reality, not climate science models which are useless, and adapt to reality, not armageddonist speculation.
It's clear you have no science.

Let me ask you how you know scientists are "acting in lockstep". You have no ability to assess such a situation by your own statements.
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,947 posts, read 7,874,941 times
Reputation: 11164
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
It's clear you have no science.

Let me ask you how you know scientists are "acting in lockstep". You have no ability to assess such a situation by your own statements.
By "acting in lockstep" I am not referring to any organized conspiracy. I am referring to the existential fact that all climate scientists are leftist-collectivists in varying degree, and politics colors science. The two cannot be extricated.

Especially when their funding and existence comes from leftist-collectivist sourcing, and the only way to keep the money coming is to sell a narrative of panic and impending doom and destruction. Can you imagine what would happen to climate science welfare grants if the conclusion was: "everything seems to be basically OK"?

Notice that climate scientists do not offer science. They offer radical armageddonism, and "solutions" to the "problem" based on models and hypotheticals and speculations. Models that cannot predict the weather 3 days out. And those solutions take the form of redistribution of wealth, oppressive taxation, stifling regulation, bigger and bigger government, and open contempt for capitalism and individual rights.

In other words, when a mob of collectivists gets together implicitly as a profession to sell a narrative of extinction combined with tax and social policy to combat it, we have to be very careful. And when that mob proposes massive redistribution of wealth (THEFT), and sets up shop in the United Nations and attempts to translate that theft on a global scale, then the entire profession must now be considered problematical.

Climate scientists could care less about climate. What they really care about is social justice. What they really hate is capitalism. The entire field is debauched and disgraced. Climate science is political science. Climate science should now be taught in university structure under the umbrella of The Humanities, where all the other leftist-collectivist swine swim in their slop.

Last edited by Marc Paolella; 08-07-2018 at 09:00 AM..
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,947 posts, read 7,874,941 times
Reputation: 11164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
Non starter. That will never happen.

https://www.ctj.org/fact-sheet-why-w...te-income-tax/

Never is a long time, and we just reduced corporate tax rates significantly. It can be done again.
By the way, you do realize Citizens for Tax Justice is a capitalist-hating "workers think tank" funded by labor unions and other left wing sources. Here is their manifesto in blue.

Tax fairness for middle and low-income families
By "fairness" they mean no taxes for the poor, and heavy taxes for the rich.

Requiring the wealthy to pay their fair share
By "fair share", they mean something like a 75% marginal tax rate. Because the rich do not "need all that money".

Closing corporate tax loopholes
Making sure people CANNOT keep what they earn and own. Loopholes need to be closed, ALL THE MONEY needs to get to the State without escaping to its owners, to those who earned it.

Adequately funding important government services
Bigger and bigger government and State control of the lives of "the people".

Reducing the federal debt
Always by higher and higher taxation, and never by cutting the size of the State.

Taxation that minimizes distortion of economic markets
Oh look, they want us to think they offered us a bone! I'd love to hear the definition of such taxation.

So, in short, you can shove that source where the sun don't shine. CTJ is a worthless collection of leftist-collectivist hacks bent on destroying individual rights and repealing capitalism.
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:41 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,035,829 times
Reputation: 5940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
By "acting in lockstep" ...

.
[quote=Marc Paolella;52727187]Never is a long time, …
quote]


-can't rep you again, Marc...excellent, eloquent rebuttals.




BTW- DC- Not in lock step? Now that 97% consensus doesn't count?
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