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Old 12-24-2018, 11:37 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,035,829 times
Reputation: 5940

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Yes you can re-cycle the toxic metals. You can also extract Gold from sea-water--but it costs more to do it than you get back in gold. The article impresses us with those big numbers about tonnage of waste, but doesn't mention the cost or what govt subsidies are are making it worth the entrepreneurs' efforts. The article in the OP claims it's an economic loser- like re-cycling most other materials bedsides common metals.


Submariner== you're right-- alternative energy is a niche market-- works for some; doesn't work for most. Keep in mind that you're not running any medical ventilators. If the sun doesn't shine for a week, you can just sit by the fireside and read a book like young Abe Lincoln until your battery is finally re-charged again.
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Old 12-25-2018, 06:51 AM
 
4,230 posts, read 839,270 times
Reputation: 2318
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Yes you can re-cycle the toxic metals. You can also extract Gold from sea-water--but it costs more to do it than you get back in gold. The article impresses us with those big numbers about tonnage of waste, but doesn't mention the cost or what govt subsidies are are making it worth the entrepreneurs' efforts. The article in the OP claims it's an economic loser- like re-cycling most other materials bedsides common metals.


Submariner== you're right-- alternative energy is a niche market-- works for some; doesn't work for most. Keep in mind that you're not running any medical ventilators. If the sun doesn't shine for a week, you can just sit by the fireside and read a book like young Abe Lincoln until your battery is finally re-charged again.
So now is the objection is cost, regardless that the recycling plant is a private one, not a government one and needs to make a profit. Veolia clearly has done their own economic study, as they are already in waste management, and find this move to an addition to their bottom line.

As far as "if the sun doesn't shine", that issue has not been solved... yet. We do have wind, which often blows better when the sun doesn't shine. We have utility grade battery setups, we are finding that molten salt has a long lifespan where it can be used, and yes, we still for now require old school power plants, whether they are hydro (renewable), nuclear or powered by the cleaner of the fossil fuels, natural gas.

Technology changes fast. Fighting it does no good.
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Old 12-25-2018, 08:10 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,035,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post

Technology changes fast. .

??? We've been looking for that better battery for 150 yrs now-- the present paradigm shows a theoretical limit to the possible energy density.


I've been following PV for 50 yrs now-- pathetic increments in efficiency have been gained over that time span. The only significant "progress" that has been made is in production costs.




I'm not against alternative energy on any ideological level-- just the practical. It's nowhere near ready for anything other than niche applications-- and barring some revolutionary change in the paradigm, never will replace other sources of energy production on a large scale.


BTW- that French company may be privately held, but no mention of govt subsidies. The American efforts involved with solar & wind power production and EVs would not exist if it weren't for (foolish) Fed subsidies. Crony Capitalism at its finest.
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Old 12-25-2018, 08:42 AM
 
4,230 posts, read 839,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
??? We've been looking for that better battery for 150 yrs now-- the present paradigm shows a theoretical limit to the possible energy density.


I've been following PV for 50 yrs now-- pathetic increments in efficiency have been gained over that time span. The only significant "progress" that has been made is in production costs.
Lots of work being done on better, more efficient batteries.

https://www.renewableenergyworld.com...y-spinoff.html

https://www.slashgear.com/honda-reve...rage-06557121/

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...sibly-for-cars

https://www.renewableenergyworld.com...rge-grids.html


Quote:
BTW- that French company may be privately held, but no mention of govt subsidies. The American efforts involved with solar & wind power production and EVs would not exist if it weren't for (foolish) Fed subsidies. Crony Capitalism at its finest.

There is no indication that Veolia or their partner, PV Cycle (France) are anything but private organizations. Why would you jump to the thought that it must be government subsidized without any evidence or indications of the same???

Veolia and PV CYCLE France sign partnership agreement | PV CYCLE Association

Solar panel recycling plant opens in France - Climate Action

https://www.veolia.com/en/newsroom/n...economy-france
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Old 12-25-2018, 04:10 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,035,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
Lots of work being done on better, more efficient batteries.

. Why would you jump to the thought that it must be government subsidized without any evidence or indications of the same???

Oh, I don't know. Just a wild guess.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...-idUSKCN0V52CY


Solar Power Incentives in France: Subsidization without 'Planification'? - Knowledge@Wharton


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/hamza...b_4648903.html

"I am passionate about the need to make total recycling of green technology a reality. My company, with support from the French government, has been carrying out research and development to design a process that will allow that to happen,..."
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Old 12-25-2018, 05:11 PM
 
4,230 posts, read 839,270 times
Reputation: 2318
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Oh, I don't know. Just a wild guess.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...-idUSKCN0V52CY


Solar Power Incentives in France: Subsidization without 'Planification'? - Knowledge@Wharton


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/hamza...b_4648903.html

"I am passionate about the need to make total recycling of green technology a reality. My company, with support from the French government, has been carrying out research and development to design a process that will allow that to happen,..."
You might want to check who that quote is from. It certainly is NOT Veolia and the article is from over 4 years ago. You have no basis and not evidence that Veolia is getting any subsidy, as much as you want to wish it was true.
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Old 12-26-2018, 07:56 AM
 
Location: DC
6,509 posts, read 6,427,712 times
Reputation: 3112
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
??? We've been looking for that better battery for 150 yrs now-- the present paradigm shows a theoretical limit to the possible energy density.


I've been following PV for 50 yrs now-- pathetic increments in efficiency have been gained over that time span. The only significant "progress" that has been made is in production costs.




I'm not against alternative energy on any ideological level-- just the practical. It's nowhere near ready for anything other than niche applications-- and barring some revolutionary change in the paradigm, never will replace other sources of energy production on a large scale.


BTW- that French company may be privately held, but no mention of govt subsidies. The American efforts involved with solar & wind power production and EVs would not exist if it weren't for (foolish) Fed subsidies. Crony Capitalism at its finest.
We have about 280000 MW of coal capacity and 112000 MW of wind and solar. To any rational adult renewable energy is way beyond the niche level. Utilities will add another 13000 MW of wind and solar within the next 4 years. 17 MW of coal is projected to be added.
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Old 12-26-2018, 10:11 AM
 
Location: IN
20,786 posts, read 35,823,153 times
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So, focus on wind over solar. Wind energy is coming up to 50% of all electricity generated in some states or in short order. Advancements in blade technology and engineering make them very efficient, and rural landowners get land lease payments per turbine.
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Old 12-26-2018, 10:13 AM
 
Location: IN
20,786 posts, read 35,823,153 times
Reputation: 13210
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
We have about 280000 MW of coal capacity and 112000 MW of wind and solar. To any rational adult renewable energy is way beyond the niche level. Utilities will add another 13000 MW of wind and solar within the next 4 years. 17 MW of coal is projected to be added.
The writing is on the wall for coal, as the vast majority of the units still operating are 40-50 years old Expect lots of coal plant retirements planned and unplanned over the next 5-10 years.
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Old 12-26-2018, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,578 posts, read 8,496,125 times
Reputation: 5147
Here's a cool little graph that might help you see. Base load fossil fuel generation isn't going anywhere..........
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/data/browser/
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