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Old 04-18-2008, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Denver
2,970 posts, read 6,268,123 times
Reputation: 4826

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IbeDavid View Post
I do believe it is a good thing for a nation to be conscious of this issue and to partake in it. But i dont think much of a difference will be made until the Government makes it mandatory to follow GreenLiving guidelines . I dont seperate out the plastic from the aluminum cans from the paper with my trash..and frankly..i would find it a bother to do so. I guess im one of those lax folks that would only comply if it were law. Should i be ashamed of myself ?
As you have discussed on the Relationship Forum, "The Creator" would be ashamed of you because you are not taking care of his Creation!!
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Old 04-19-2008, 11:39 PM
 
Location: California
1,268 posts, read 866,918 times
Reputation: 76
You guys want to know when I will go green? When the Indians and the Chinese do.
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Old 04-20-2008, 05:55 AM
CBB
 
Location: Munich + FL, 32082
481 posts, read 2,042,201 times
Reputation: 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exedous View Post
You guys want to know when I will go green? When the Indians and the Chinese do.
Wow - what a fabulous reason to do nothing!
You probably forgot that the U.S. has for decades been the #1 consumer of power and fuel - and still is, per capita.
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Old 04-20-2008, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Cold Frozen North
1,928 posts, read 4,632,224 times
Reputation: 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exedous View Post
You guys want to know when I will go green? When the Indians and the Chinese do.
I agree here. I wonder why the Kyoto agreement excluded countries like China and India? Makes you wonder what the real agenda is. All the environmentalists keep beating up the US yet are strangely silent on these countries. I really like to know why.
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Old 04-20-2008, 05:26 PM
 
1,218 posts, read 3,657,141 times
Reputation: 1155
Should you be ashamed of yourself? You're asking strangers to judge you? Live your life the way you want. Forget about our opinions.
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Old 04-20-2008, 06:33 PM
 
212 posts, read 871,144 times
Reputation: 139
Default Th U.S. has caused most of the GHG pollution

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter73 View Post
I agree here. I wonder why the Kyoto agreement excluded countries like China and India? Makes you wonder what the real agenda is. All the environmentalists keep beating up the US yet are strangely silent on these countries. I really like to know why.
The US has been the biggest contributor of greenhouse gases since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. We continue to dump the most CO2 into the atmosphere, with China picking up speed quickly.

We have been the leader in technology for so many years, but we're losing our edge. It's up to us to be the leader in cleaning up our act. When the 'leader' shows that it can be done, others will follow.

"All these environmentalists... beating up the US...what the real agenda is"....What do you think? That there is a conspiracy?

Read this article by Bill McKibben:
Bill McKibben - Remember This: 350 Parts Per Million - washingtonpost.com
The problems of global equity alone may be too much -- the Chinese aren't going to stop burning coal unless we give them some other way to pull people out of poverty. And we simply may have waited too long.
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Old 04-20-2008, 10:07 PM
 
Location: California
1,268 posts, read 866,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBB View Post
Wow - what a fabulous reason to do nothing!
You probably forgot that the U.S. has for decades been the #1 consumer of power and fuel - and still is, per capita.
Hey, just as an example-- this forum is here. The Green Living forum. The U.S is doing something about. India and China are doing very little.
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Old 04-21-2008, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,036 posts, read 22,019,784 times
Reputation: 19908
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter73 View Post
I agree here. I wonder why the Kyoto agreement excluded countries like China and India? Makes you wonder what the real agenda is. All the environmentalists keep beating up the US yet are strangely silent on these countries. I really like to know why.
Western countries have already have their industrialisation and China and India haven't. That's why.

We have "benefited" from all the environmental destruction we have unleashed unto the world since the mid 1800s. We have become economic giants as a result. By exploiting less developed nations.

And India and China are starting to make headways on greener issues by the way.

Why should India and China be denied the wealth and economic success we have achieved?

As for being green, I don't do it because others do it or because I am forced to do it. I do it because it is the only common sensical, logical thing to do.

What a sad way to look at the world. America CAN afford to go green. China and India are still in the midst of their economic development. Most of the goods they produce come to us. We are the cause of not only our own environmental destruction but also of other nations.

But I am relieved the "me, me, me" mentality is still prevalent in some.

What a fine example it would be for us in the West to actually herald a new era of environmental awareness regardless of what other nations are doing. The Kyoto treaty isn't here to play childish games of "not until he does". It is there because biting the hand that feeds us ( quite literally) , the earth is just plain stupid. And if we can do something about it, easily and painlessly then it seems a small price to pay .
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Old 04-21-2008, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,764 posts, read 16,876,079 times
Reputation: 9324
HighPlainsDrifter73 wrote:
However, most of the rest of my life is full throttle. I like pleasure driving and long road trips with gas guzzler vehicles and live in a large house. I drive to work alone with a 90 mile round trip. While gas and diesel are high priced, it hasn't really changed my lifestyle any.
HighPlains, this is not directed at you personally. I'm merely using your post as an example. I think anyone has a right to drive whatever vehichle they choose and drive as many miles as they see fit. However, I'd love to see a system that tracks fuel consumption and raises the price as consumption increases. For example, the 1st 20 gallons of fuel per week would be paid for at the going rate. The next 20 gallons would be the going rate plus $5 per gallon. The rate would keep escalating upwards by $5 per gallon in 20 gallon increments.

If someone wants to live in a huge house, that too is their perogative, but I'd like to see a graduated pricing structure with consumption of electricity, heating oil, propane, natural gas, etc. The more resources a person chooses to consume, the higher the cost per unit becomes. I would like to have those who choose to consume a dis-proportinate amount of resources pay much higher prices than those who consume modestly. A graduated consumption tax would quickly curb our national tendency toward over consumption.

Last edited by CosmicWizard; 04-21-2008 at 12:59 PM..
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Old 04-21-2008, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Cold Frozen North
1,928 posts, read 4,632,224 times
Reputation: 1274
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAgeRedneck View Post
HighPlainsDrifter73 wrote:
However, most of the rest of my life is full throttle. I like pleasure driving and long road trips with gas guzzler vehicles and live in a large house. I drive to work alone with a 90 mile round trip. While gas and diesel are high priced, it hasn't really changed my lifestyle any.
HighPlains, this is not directed at you personally. I'm merely using your post as an example. I think anyone has a right to drive whatever vehichle they choose and drive as many miles as they see fit. However, I'd love to see a system that tracks fuel consumption and raises the price as consumption increases. For example, the 1st 20 gallons of fuel per week would be paid for at the going rate. The next 20 gallons would be the going rate plus $5 per gallon. The rate would keep escalating upwards by $5 per gallon in 20 gallon increments.

If someone wants to live in a huge house, that too is their perogative, but I'd like to see a graduated pricing structure with consumption of electricity, heating oil, propane, natural gas, etc. The more resources a person chooses to consume, the higher the cost per unit becomes. I would like to have those who choose to consume a dis-proportinate amount of resources pay much higher prices than those who consume modestly. A graduated consumption tax would quickly curb our national tendency toward over consumption.
I think that there is a word for what you are advocating. That word is socialism. That approach may best be tried in Europe first. They might like it there. Of course they already have outrageous gasoline prices anyway.

Also, in all my dealings in the business world, price goes down when you buy larger quantities of any product. I've never heard of the unit price increasing as you purchase more of an item. That it totally arse backwards to me.

As for my personal habits, I place a very high degree of freedom on personal choice and even more on freedom of mobility. To me it is truly amazing that I can get in my car at any time and drive where I want, when I want. I hope I never live to see the day when a government bureacrat has veto power over that freedom. I very much believe in individual choice and would die to protect it. Life isn't worth living without it.
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