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Old 03-28-2019, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
9,014 posts, read 2,942,332 times
Reputation: 13503

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Many landfills do not produce enough methane gas to harvest economically. But it does percolate sideways through the soil and kills trees and other vegetation by suffocating its roots. The layers of plastic that might be buried to contain it, will last just so long. There are landfills in Europe that are still producing methane more than 150 years after they were filled and closed.

The biggest abandoned landfill in our area, is the Day Island Site, which was stupidly located within just a few feet from the Willamette River. It was closed in the early 1970s, but a flow of badly polluted, orange-colored water still comes out and fouls the river. Methane continues to come up and allows nothing but a few weeds to grow on it. Right in the middle of our city, in a large park, it is a wasteland and will be nothing but that, for a very long time into the future.

I don't have garbage service, because I recycle, burn or compost 99.9% of my household waste. It takes me about three years to accumulate just a few pounds of hard waste in a bag, mostly non-toxic bits of metal, that I send to the dump. There is no kind of material that can't be recycled somewhere in most communities, either at public waste collection facilities or at retail stores.

I'll be taking my bucket of used batteries to a public recycling center soon and some old running shoes to a store that accepts them. I have a sack of plastic bags that will go to a nearby grocery. I have several old VCRs and printers, I can take to any one of several large electronics stores. The franchised curbside garbage collection company in our area will pick up mixed recyclables in a basket they provide free of charge to those who don't subscribe to their regular, full service. When I have saved up enough glass, I can put it, by itself, in the basket for free pickup. They do make a small profit from selling the material to a large recycling company, that collects from the entire state.

The recent increase of drink-container deposits in Oregon to 10 cents, has done the trick and you rarely see a discarded container anywhere. The people who used to go through the recycling containers that were put out for curb pickup, to collect bottles and cans they could turn into cash, are out of a job, as the pickings have become too slim.

The unfortunate fact that the Chinese no longer buy our recycled plastics has restricted curbside recycling, as they won't accept cottage cheese type plastic containers any longer. This is a problem that our country needs to solve, to keep this plastic out of landfills or littering our landscapes.
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Old 03-29-2019, 02:14 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,035,829 times
Reputation: 5940
Many unsubstantiated claims about methane made in the last post. ..Tell us, if all that organic material in the landfills had never been used and dumped, where would it have decomposed (it would have been grown in the first place regardless of its final destination) and what would be the final fate of the carbon in it? Methane is not "poisonous." It kills by asphyxiation-- prevents adequate inspiration/absorption of O2 if it's concentration is extremely high-- not just by the few ppb in well ventilated, un-contained swamp gas.


Your example about the leaking dump along the river is merely evidence in support of modern landfill construction. Those built since then don't leak. They are monitored closely for thirty yrs after they've filled and closed.


But, we're all glad you're such a good boy. Your virtue is properly noted and enrolled in Your Permanent Record. You deserve a cookie.
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Old 03-29-2019, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
26,426 posts, read 62,653,352 times
Reputation: 30210
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Ask one of your kids if they can loan me 20 bucks 'til payday?
They went to college and got "real jobs" Now they are broke all the time. I cannot even borrow money from them anymore.
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Old 04-15-2019, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
9,014 posts, read 2,942,332 times
Reputation: 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Many unsubstantiated claims about methane made in the last post. ..Tell us, if all that organic material in the landfills had never been used and dumped, where would it have decomposed (it would have been grown in the first place regardless of its final destination) and what would be the final fate of the carbon in it? Methane is not "poisonous." It kills by asphyxiation-- prevents adequate inspiration/absorption of O2 if it's concentration is extremely high-- not just by the few ppb in well ventilated, un-contained swamp gas.


Your example about the leaking dump along the river is merely evidence in support of modern landfill construction. Those built since then don't leak. They are monitored closely for thirty yrs after they've filled and closed.


But, we're all glad you're such a good boy. Your virtue is properly noted and enrolled in Your Permanent Record. You deserve a cookie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honest American View Post
Wow. No need to bash someone because they raised their kids to be aware of their surroundings.

I suspect that the first-quoted poster may have an opposed political orientation to mine, which would explain his irrational bashing of my statements. This subject should be of universal concern, separate from any political slant. And there is no such thing as a non-leaking landfill. Some may be built so as to leak less. But their contents will actively spread pollution for centuries, not just for thirty years. And the land above them will be unable to support most types of vegetation. No buildings should be placed on the sites, due to unstable footings over the garbage and foul smells.

The horizontally-percolating methane from the local landfill I described killed half of the grove of mixed conifers that was closest to the landfill. They dug a deep trench and filled it with several layers of tough plastic, to block the movement of the gas towards the trees. It worked and the other half of the grove survives. At least for now.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:16 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,035,829 times
Reputation: 5940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve McDonald View Post
I suspect that the first-quoted poster may have an opposed political orientation to mine, which would explain his irrational bashing of my statements. This subject should be of universal concern, separate from any political slant. And there is no such thing as a non-leaking landfill. Some may be built so as to leak less. But their contents will actively spread pollution for centuries, not just for thirty years. And the land above them will be unable to support most types of vegetation. No buildings should be placed on the sites, due to unstable footings over the garbage and foul smells.

The horizontally-percolating methane from the local landfill I described killed half of the grove of mixed conifers that was closest to the landfill. They dug a deep trench and filled it with several layers of tough plastic, to block the movement of the gas towards the trees. It worked and the other half of the grove survives. At least for now.

I'm glad you popped back over here to answer my admittedly harsh post. I had never seen your name here before, but since then have seen your presence elsewhere and seem to usually have a more informed POV. I started this thread to educate readers on the facts about how we handle our refuse and their unsubstantiated claims about the environmental impact. ...Your post seemed to have ignored those facts or the ineffective approach of those who think they are accomplishing something by re-cycling, reducing, etc.


Your example of dying pine trees is an excellent example: I sincerely doubt it was the methane killing them- more likely some other cause is responsible. As I stated, methane is not "poisonous." It cannot kill, except by excluding oxygen due to an extremely high concentration- the few ppm released by a dump, and then diminishes by the cube of the distance from the source is inadequate. ..The "solution" was to build a barrier (?how does a gas permeate soil laterally to any great extent). It seemed to stop further tree death-- in trees farther away and even less likely to be affected by any such methane...Did the barrier work, or would the trees have survived anyway?...Where are you located? We're losing a lot of pines over the past several yrs due to drought in some areas. How long has the dump been there? If it's many years, why did it take so long to affect the trees? If it's new, maybe it affected water label level or flow and that killed the trees. ...Misinterpreted high correlation without proof of cause/effect is how superstitious behavior starts.


In regards fate of landfills after use full life, we have a thread here devoted to the subject. They are now returned to useful life as parks, recreational areas and wild life preserves. Communities & the environment benefit.


So many people are concerned about the environment but are nave. They direct their passive efforts towards things like reducing trash production, avoiding plastic and reducing carbon footprint--Things that are not only ineffective but may be counter-productive....They should be doing something more effective and productive-- but that is active, takes time, effort and money-- plant gardens, provide habitat in your own yard, work cleaning up rivers, woods, prairies, etc -- a little tougher than separating garbage for a re-cycling bin and then sitting down for a sushi dinner that contributes to the devastation of natural fish populations, while patting themselves on the back for not using a plastic straw.
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Old 04-17-2019, 04:50 AM
 
Location: Whereever we have our RV parked
8,668 posts, read 7,634,820 times
Reputation: 14830
Imho, they should revisit burning trash. Much of it is quite flammable and with proper polution controls could burn quite cleanly. Some trash has been burned in power plants.
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Old 04-17-2019, 12:26 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,769 posts, read 1,035,829 times
Reputation: 5940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honest American View Post
Exactly! ... different areas that got their power from burning trash, ....

Plastic, after all, is a petroleum product.


Forty yrs ago I was trying to help one enlightened county board member where I lived in IL to educate the other board members about building a trash burning energy plant-- but ignorance and refusal to learn dominated. The NIMBY mentality was held as religious belief...Another example of ill- advised, counter-productive "environmental concern" based on nave emotion and superstitious beliefs.
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Old 04-17-2019, 03:33 PM
 
1,334 posts, read 991,657 times
Reputation: 3138
I'm from a rural area, and remember the days when there weren't many landfills. People would usually throw trash off the nearest bridge, or into some ravine. At least we've progressed from that.
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