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Old 03-28-2019, 03:54 AM
 
Location: Podunk, IA
6,143 posts, read 5,218,379 times
Reputation: 7022

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
Why can't we go gung-ho on oil production here, sell it domestically for $1 a gallon like in the middle east, and charge the rest of the world the equivalent of $3-5 a gallon?
Norway does even more than that.
They charge the locals up the wazoo for gasoline, use hydro for power and sell almost all of their oil.

That's how they came to have the world's largest sovereign fund.
It's the equivalent of the city of Chicago having a trillion bucks.
If they ran out of oil tomorrow, they'd be set financially.
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Old 03-28-2019, 05:27 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,184 posts, read 5,040,025 times
Reputation: 17564
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
Norway does even more than that.
They charge the locals up the wazoo for gasoline, use hydro for power and sell almost all of their oil.

That's how they came to have the world's largest sovereign fund.
It's the equivalent of the city of Chicago having a trillion bucks.
If they ran out of oil tomorrow, they'd be set financially.

Something's fishy in Norway, then:


American state budgets typically spend ~$6000/ head; Feds ~$7000/head. Chicago population (<) 2M. $1T/2M = $500,000/head. Invested at only 5%/yr, interest alone would give each citizen $25,000/yr "income." People in Norway should never have to work. Who picks up their trash?


Average wage in Norway is ~15% higher than in US, but COL is ~45% higher. Gasoline is 3x higher in Norway, while utilities cost slightly more than here. Price of electricity is ~20 cents/kWh (highly taxed) --so they're not doing too well with that sovereign fund.....They might be as corrupt as Chicago, it seems.

Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site



I agree, we, as US citizens, don't get enough royalties on oil from Fed lands..but that's a whole 'nuther argument.


What's all this got to do with the price of coal? Low energy costs equate with higher standard of living. Americans spend much less on gasoline & electricity than Norwegians and we have a much higher SOL.

Last edited by Yac; 04-04-2019 at 12:43 AM..
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Old 03-28-2019, 05:36 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,969,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
I wouldn't consider 35 cents per kWh winning. The only way that is winning hand is stacked deck.
If you want coal that is what you will pay.
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Old 03-28-2019, 05:57 AM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,931,532 times
Reputation: 17863
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
If you want coal that is what you will pay.

Interesting observation, if you added CC capture and a plethora of environmental regulations would Germans be paying less that what they are now? The benefit would be realiable source of power safely within their borders.
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:54 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,969,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Interesting observation, if you added CC capture and a plethora of environmental regulations would Germans be paying less that what they are now? The benefit would be realiable source of power safely within their borders.
Carbon capture is a decade behind cold fusion.
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Old 03-28-2019, 09:23 AM
 
6,676 posts, read 5,889,995 times
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Other factors to consider:

Steel production in the U.S. is rising, and that requires coke, made from coal. For that reason, coal production is booming in parts of W. Virginia even though demand for coal in power plants is declining.

Utility scale and residential solar installs are projected to rise in 2019, driven by plummeting equipment costs, despite the tariffs. If a trade deal is reached and tariffs ended, this can only increase.

The trend toward more EV's on the road will probably drive more solar installs; EV buyers tend to be "green". Of course the main problem with solar is its lack of availability at night, when commuters come home and recharge their cars. So then we have the Tesla home battery and similar: massive cost and resources to time-delay the solar.

When batteries and other storage tech (fuel cells, molten salts) reach a competitive price point, I suspect we'll be seeing a sudden uptick in solar installs.
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Old 03-28-2019, 10:25 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,969,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
Other factors to consider:

Steel production in the U.S. is rising, and that requires coke, made from coal. For that reason, coal production is booming in parts of W. Virginia even though demand for coal in power plants is declining.
Over 2/3 of our steel comes from steel mini mills that don't use coke. No one is going to build a new integrated steel mill in the US so while the output of integrated plants might expand a little bit, it won't move the needle for coal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
Utility scale and residential solar installs are projected to rise in 2019, driven by plummeting equipment costs, despite the tariffs. If a trade deal is reached and tariffs ended, this can only increase.

The trend toward more EV's on the road will probably drive more solar installs; EV buyers tend to be "green". Of course the main problem with solar is its lack of availability at night, when commuters come home and recharge their cars. So then we have the Tesla home battery and similar: massive cost and resources to time-delay the solar.
Look up "net metering" Tesla and other owners can "bank" the energy from solar produced during the day for later use at night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post
When batteries and other storage tech (fuel cells, molten salts) reach a competitive price point, I suspect we'll be seeing a sudden uptick in solar installs.
Is your name Rip van Winkle? Sudden uptick?
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Old 03-28-2019, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Canada
14,727 posts, read 14,898,356 times
Reputation: 34785
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Debate about coal is OVER. Wind and solar win.

Wind and solar sure wouldn't win on the west coast and the mountain regions, or in the north. They can only be supplementary on a small scale. Very little wind to speak of and some areas can go for months with overcast skies. Further north you go in the winter there is little to no daylight at all, let alone actual sunlight. Here it's pretty much hydro all the way, enough electricity is produced that what doesn't get used domestically gets exported to western USA and other parts of Canada.


.
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Old 03-28-2019, 12:09 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,969,160 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
Wind and solar sure wouldn't win on the west coast and the mountain regions, or in the north. They can only be supplementary on a small scale. Very little wind to speak of and some areas can go for months with overcast skies. Further north you go in the winter there is little to no daylight at all, let alone actual sunlight. Here it's pretty much hydro all the way, enough electricity is produced that what doesn't get used domestically gets exported to western USA and other parts of Canada.


.
The available hydro has been built out. Your understanding of the renewable resource is based upon ignorance. Read the report.
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Old 03-28-2019, 02:53 PM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
7,184 posts, read 5,040,025 times
Reputation: 17564
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Over 2/3 of our steel comes from steel mini mills that don't use coke. No one is going to build a new integrated steel mill in the US so while the output of integrated plants might expand a little bit, it won't move the needle for coal.

Look up "net metering" Tesla and other owners can "bank" the energy from solar produced during the day for later use at night.

Is your name Rip van Winkle? Sudden uptick?

A) Better brush up on you facts about steel production. https://www.letstalkaboutcoal.co.nz/...-without-coal/ Your "2/3 of our steel... " comment is patently false-- You're counting re-cycled steel-- coke already has been use to make most of it; other carbon sources for the rest-- and it all still needs coal as the power source. Production via electric arc furnaces just isn't ready for prime time for making fresh, raw steel. It's used sometimes for re-cycling only, and demand for steel greatly exceeds supply of re-cycled steel.


B) PV installations number ~15,000/yr (from your graph)-- out of 100,000,000 US homes-- That's 0.015% of homes. Two times nothing is still nothing.

c) Banking home made solar power still needs back- up power production for the grid. All those cool Millennials spent all that money on home PV installations & excessively expensive EVs and their precious carbon footprint hasn't gone down a bit....and now they also have all that college tuition debt to pay back and their "education" just spoon fed them stupidity.
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